The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
PoboznyNeil, Hammerz75, SSLOBOD, Jayce, Fr. Abraham
6,185 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 669 guests, and 111 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,533
Posts417,713
Members6,185
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#68554 02/07/03 11:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Tony, by the way, what three canons are you referring to for preparation for Holy Communion in the Russian usage? I have heard of generally only one canon and two akathists for preparation.

In the Russian usage, even in the Old Believer usage, generally only the Canon for Preparation for Holy Communion is said with the Akathists to the Theotokos and the Saviour interspersed if desired after the First and Sixth Odes of the Canon.

The Greek usage from the Mega Horologion is to take the Canon for Preparation at Small Compline in the evening preceding, and the Russian is to take the Canon after Psalms 21-23, 115, troparia, Psalm 50 and then the Canon of Preparation as an early morning preparation (followed sometimes by Confession) and then the recitation of the eighteen prayers of more immediate preparation, recitation of the Creed, kondak of Holy Thursday, etc. as final preparation prayers.

#68555 02/08/03 12:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 976
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 976
Quote
Originally posted by Diak:
Tony, by the way, what three canons are you referring to for preparation for Holy Communion in the Russian usage? I have heard of generally only one canon and two akathists for preparation.

In the Russian usage, even in the Old Believer usage, generally only the Canon for Preparation for Holy Communion is said with the Akathists to the Theotokos and the Saviour interspersed if desired after the First and Sixth Odes of the Canon.

The Greek usage from the Mega Horologion is to take the Canon for Preparation at Small Compline in the evening preceding, and the Russian is to take the Canon after Psalms 21-23, 115, troparia, Psalm 50 and then the Canon of Preparation as an early morning preparation (followed sometimes by Confession) and then the recitation of the eighteen prayers of more immediate preparation, recitation of the Creed, kondak of Holy Thursday, etc. as final preparation prayers.
Dear Diak,

In the "Prayer Book" Fourth Edition - Revised, Second Printing - With Corrections, 1996, Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, NY, on page 399: "Those who are preparing for Holy Communion are obliged to read three Canons and one Akathist the evening before. Usually read are the Supplicatory Canons to the Saviour and the Mother of God, and the Canon to the Guardian Angel (in that order) and either the Akathist to the Saviour or to the Mother of God."

In "Orthodox Daily Prayers" by St. Tikhon's Seminary Press, 1982, on page 89: "A tradition has developed in the Church of Russia of reading three (sometimes four) Canons the evening before receiving Holy Communion."

Using the transliteration system used in the Ruthenian Metropolia in the USA, "Molitvolslov" by the Sr'itenskyj Monastyr' ("Meeting" Monastery), 2000, Moscow, on page 49: Tri kanona s akafistom. (I don't really recall now how the -th- is rendered if by -f- or -t-.)

In all these the Canons and their order are the same. In the Jordanville Prayer Book there are two options for the Akathist, to the "Sweetest Lord Jesus" or "Our Most Holy Lady Theotokos." In the St. Tikhon's book there is no Akathist provided. In the Sr'itenskyj Monastery Molitvoslov the Akathist to "Our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ" is inserted in the appropriate place but there are also listed Akathists to the Most Holy Theotokos and St. Nicholas the Wonder-Worker.

In all three books the Canon of Preparation is also listed separately as that would not be read with the other three. The three are read as part of small Compline while the Canon of Preparation is read together with the prayers of preparation.

Like anything on the face of this planet, there are bound to be variations. These are the sources I have at hand right now and this is what I am aware of.

The "Old Orthodox Prayer Book" printed in 2001 from the Erie, PA, parish provides the Canon before Holy Communion beginning on page 277 that appears to be part of the Prayers before Holy Communion which start on page 292, that is they would be taken together. This more or less corresponds to the New Rite with regard to that Canon.

On page 36 as part of "Evening Prayer" it has "Then, if you wish to read a Canon...." In the index three Canons are listed "to Our Lord Jesus Christ" on page 162, "Supplicatory Canons to the Mother of God" on page 197 and "to the Guardian Angel" on page 205. Those are the same ones provided in the New Rite books.

Tony

#68556 02/08/03 10:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 976
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 976
Something I neglected to mention. In the case of these 3 Canons, they are not read one after another, nor is ode 1 read three time (once for each Canon) but they are combined. In the Jrdanville book the rules for doing this are provided together with instructions about where to insert the Akathist . In the other books the Canons are already printed combined.

#68557 02/08/03 01:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 640
Likes: 12
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 640
Likes: 12
Well, Subdeacon Randy, the only and greatest sinner i know, as far as i can judge is myself. But greatness can also be measured in knowledge, height and girth wink

#68558 02/08/03 01:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Dear Tony, thanks for that reminder. I looked at my Jordanville prayer book and found the rubric in quewstion at the end of the section for reading Canons and Akathists while alone.

I have been using the Erie Old Believer prayer book for preparation for Holy Communion for so long I had forgotten about that suggested rubric in the Jordanville book. smile

With regards to the Old Believer practice, which I try to follow in this regard, the specific guidelines for preparation for Holy Communion in the Erie Old Believer prayer book only lists the reading of the appointed psalms, the Canon of Preparation, the 18 pre-Communion prayers with kondak of Holy Thursday, etc. and the post-Communion prayers after having received Holy Communion.

So it seems that this other rubric in the Jordanville book for reading additional Canons for preparation is a later post-Nikonian development, or influenced from the Greek Mega Horologion, and I would also go on to surmise a post-Mohylian development as well. I'll stick with the Old Believer usage. wink

#68559 02/10/03 10:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Diak,

The Old Believer usage as I've found it in the Bila Krinitsa tradition with respect to preparation for Holy Communion is quite the "Podvig!"

Also, I understand that the Canon of St Andrew of Crete is to be read before each Confession.

Is that normative?

Alex

#68560 02/10/03 12:31 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
The reading of the 'other' canons is well established in the Old Rite so the Jordanville rubrics are not Nikonian. This rigorous preparation is obligatory for the clergy. These canons are contained in a special kanonik together with the hours and the typika as they are appointed to be read before the celebration of the liturgy. The Old Rite sluzhebnik contains additional prayers for the priest who is about to celebrate.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#68561 02/10/03 11:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Dear Father, I must respectfully point out that simply saying more prayers, canons, etc. does not necessarily make a usage de facto Old Rite. On the other hand I certainly don't disagree that there are more rigid preparation requirements for clerics in the canons.

But with regards to the lay preparation for the Holy Mysteries, I have summarized the instruction from the Erie Old Rite prayer book and can't find a practice such as that in the Jordanville book appointed for the Old Rite faithful. I suppose any rule of prayer could be established by one's spiritual father as appropriate.

Hieromonk German Ciuba painstakingly labored in compiling the Old Rite Slavonic texts, canons and instructions for the Erie prayer book. These are to a large extent those of the sluzhebniki of Patriarch Joseph of Moscow.

The witness of this parish to the Old Rite has been heroic. The Erie prayer book was originally intended not for general Orthodox usage, but specifically by the clergy for the Old Rite parishoners in Erie.

I do not think that in a matter as important as preparing for the Holy Mysteries that Hieromonk German, nor Father Theodore nor Father Pimen would "skimp" on their flock with regards to the canons or instructions for preparation, nor give any other spiritual direction other than that in accordance with the Old Rite.

And considering the three-tiered review process utilized in preparing the Erie book, I will give the Erie clergy the benefit of the doubt with their instructions for preparation for reception of the Holy Mysteries as being genuine to the Old Rite tradition. I know very few persons outside of these three who have a greater knowledge of the Old Rite.

Bsides, my spiritual father has blessed me to use the instructions in the Erie book for my personal Communion preparation, so it will have to do for me. wink

Please pray for my salvation.

#68562 02/11/03 04:28 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
Dear Diak,

May I respectfully point out that nobody has said that saying more canons make a practice Old Rite. Where did I say this? You are reading plenty of things that I haven't said into my post.

The fact renmains that the Belayakrinitsi print the book of canons specifically for the preparation for communion, but as I said , the preparation discussed is incumbent on the CLERGY. Otherwise, a spiritual father will indeed give a rule to his spiritual child.

The Erie prayerbook has never claimed to contain everything. The hours and typika are not as they would be used before the liturgy and they do not pretend to be. The Erie prayerbook contains what is necessary for the laity of the Old Rite. In the priestly tradition in Russia, the laity would use many books in their own worship.

I suggest you reread my post and understand what I have written.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#68563 02/11/03 11:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Diak and Fr. Mark,

Let's not have another Old Believer schism here! wink

I would point out that there are variations in terms of practice among the Old Believer Churches and groups - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Even the practice of saying the Lestovka has slightly different rubrics between Bela Krinitsa and the ROCOR group.

The Old Believers often take local variations into account and present them all in their texts.

For example, on the three larger notches of the Lestovka, one says the Prayer of the Thief "Remember me" but one may also say a "Bohoroditse Divo" or "Hail Mary."

The Old Believers don't have A sacred text - but several.

Alex

#68564 02/11/03 05:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Thanks for that intervention, dear Alex, we definitely don't need another "Bila Krinitsa" situation...and we all know how stubborn those Old Ritualists can get... wink But we are all friends here, right? biggrin

Dear Father, I'll read yours if you read mine... smile I stated that I recognized the preparation criteria for clergy is more stringent than the laity.

There are two complicating aspects here. The first is that, as I am sure both you and Alex know, there exists a plethera of sluzhebniki from before and during the reign of Patriarch Joseph of Moscow. I am not familiar with all of these, and there may certainly be some variation in the preparation criteria in these various texts.

Secondly there is the issue of clerical vs. lay preparation, which also adds to the variety of criteria.

As a cleric serving in the Byzantine tradition it would be quite naive and uninformed on my part to think that everything would be contained in one book or recension. I hope you are not insinuating that, Father Mark (I didn't just fall of the borshcht wagon yesterday, you know. wink )

With the multiplicity of preparation instructions, the "real" Byzantine tradition is to use the criteria established by one's spiritual father in agreement with the authentic traditions and practice of the Church.

Initially I was speaking to the variation of instruction of the Erie book, firmly and definitely rooted in the Old Rite, versus the Jordanville book, which on the whole is very faithful to the post-Nikonian Muscovite usage but has also incorporated some texts and practices from their sister Old Calendar Greek monastery of the Holy Transfiguration. I certainly don't doubt that there are other possibilities for preparation according to the Old Rite customs.

The important thing is that one prepares for the Holy Mysteries using the appropriate prayer tradition of the Church in conformance with the guidance of one's spiritual father. Please pray for my health and salvation.

Subdeacon Randolph, a sinner

#68565 02/12/03 08:51 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
Dear Subdeacon Randolph, may the All-Merciful bless you.

Alex raises an important point that Old Believers often forget - that of localisation. This was one of the rich aspects of Russian liturgical life in the Middle Ages. Howver, this is forgotten when a drive for liturgical absolutism prevails.

One only need look at the Tropar O Lord save Thy people. In my own liturgical books there are three different wordings!

Old Believers often misrepresent their liturgical tradition and need to be open to the reality of diversity. This diversity is particularly evident in the priestless Old Believer Tradition.

We can all too easily become preoccupied by the rubrics - and by we, I mean Old Ritualists. Books, vestments, bread seals are scrutinised in a way that is some times negative. I remember my abbot criticisng the Erie people over minute details which didn't matter. This is one aspect of Old Believer Tradition that I really dislike - fundamentalism.

Easten Christianity is a rich tapestry of Tradition and it needs to stay that way.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#68566 02/12/03 10:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Fr. Mark and Diak,

I hope I reap the benefits of the peacemakers, as outlined in the Beatitudes! wink

Alex

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 10
G
Member
Member
G Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 10
Originally Posted by griego catolico
I have seen though a "Canon of Saint Joseph".

Attached is a bulletin with excerpts of the Canon to Saint Joseph.
Attachments
Canon to St. Joseph.jpg (124.38 KB, 59 downloads)

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0