www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Addressess to write to to complain about the new liturgy

Dave,

My neighbour just jumped off a bridge - would you like to join the queue in front of me?

All,

Yes, there are Churches which, as a rule, do not do things by the book. But there are also Churches which do serve 'by the book'. What's wrong with their example? Why do EC's insist on taking shortcuts in their services? What's wrong with spending over an hour in church?

As for serving like our Orthodox counterparts, those of the Ruthenian tradition are a special case, as our counterpart(s) have adopted Muscovite usage. I'd love to see the Ruthenian Churches returning to the Kyivan tradtition instead of aping Muscovite, or making up new rubrics (usually accompanied by "No, we can't do it like that - that's what the Orthodox do.")

Sorry to disappoint people, but Eastern Catholics are not some "third way". They are Orthdox Churches which entered in communion with Rome. Nowhere have I seen a requirement that the Churches had to change their liturgy as a result. Sadly, historical circumstances have led us to make changes which we should not have. This is part of what Korolevsky describes as Uniatism. There is East and there is West. We are of the East. How about we give that a try first instead of making up something in between?

We've had crippled liturgy for long enough! Less is not more! 'Fix' the Liturgy by restoring, not taking away more and/or making stuff up!

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Why would I do that? Over liturgy? Naaa, it's not worth it.

Dave

Let's see...
Greek Orthodox don't do 'A' - so ECs don't have to.
Melkites don't do 'B' - so ECs don't have to.
Church 'X' doesn't do 'C' - so ECs don't have to.
ad nauseum

I bet if one looks hard enough one could probably find enough examples of shortcuts to cut down the Divine Liturgy so that the entire text would fit on one sheet of paper, maybe even just one side! Why should people have to suffer through a one hour Divine Liturgy? I bet we can cut a sung service down to 30, maybe even 20 minutes!

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Dave,

You wrote:

"Also, the Melkite method for the distribution of Holy Communion by hand without a spoon is another difference."

I appreciate the specificity of this sentence. Where do the Melkites distribut by the hand? My experience is that they serve by common spoon just as we do. I gather both of our experiences are very limited.

Dan Lauffer

St. Elias Melkite in Cleveland, OH had two priests in the past that distributed communion by hand. They would have the bread and wine seperate from each other, and dip the bread into the wine as each person came up.

I don't know what the new priest there does, the priest who I knew gave communion without a spoon became bishop of Canada (Ibrahim Ibrahim) and so they have a new priest.

Michael Cerularius

Actually I've been to several churches where the Eucharist is distributed this way.Most recently a small church near Albany, NY.
+Archbishop Raya used this method of distribution as well.

Sam

The point of my Melkite examples was not to suggest wild cuts of the Liturgy, but only to show that an Eastern Catholic Church can be close to their Orthodox counterpart yet serve differently from them. Or, maybe I should put it this way: serving differently does not always equal bad relations with the Orthodox.

This doesn't mean one MUST or SHOULD serve differently, though.

Dave

Ah, yes, the Melkites and their bizarre mode of communicating the faithful.

What's more interesting, actually, is what happens if one attempts to inquire into the origins of this peculiar practice. It's amazing how defensive the Melkite clergy are about it. Don't tell them I said so, but in reality it only dates back to the 1930s.

But then again, Archbishop Joseph Tawil acquired his 15 minutes of fame by insisting that the use of rubber bands to hold the fake cuffs on is an ancient and venerable Melkite custom with a pedigree of many centuries. He continued to insist upon this even after several priests pointed out that the rubber band was invented in the USA near the end of the 19th century.

Best to stick to devotions to Saint Melk. It's much more realistic.

Incognitus

Incognitus,

You warm my heart with these gems. I had forgotten this one .

Dan,

That your experience and Dave's differ is not surprising. The practice among our clergy, for quite some time, was to commune by intinction, as Michael describes. In recent years, though, a number of clergy have begun to use a spoon.

Many years,

Neil

Oh come on down to St. Georges Melkite, it is definately intincion by hand. Now during the PreSanctified it is by spoon, but only then.

Some of the Latin Rite clergy use intinction, as well. I know of one elderly priest who uses it because communion in the hand is forbidden for intinction.