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Is it proper or not to use the Oran Posture (outreached hands) during the Our Father? I have been practicing this the past months and it is very meditative during our Lord's Prayer. I know the priest does it during the Our Father, so is it ok for the congregation to do so too?

stivvy:

Are you asking as a Latin Catholic or an Eastern Christian?

For the Latin Church, the orans position was proposed as part of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, but was taken out before the final vote that sent the Instruction together with the American adaptations to Rome for approval. So, the short answer is that if you are a Latin Catholic it is not permitted and is not part of your tradition.

On the other hand, there are many Latin dioceses that allow and even promote it as a practice. There are others where people are told that it is not correct.

A friend who is an Orthodox priest in a Slavic tradition Church says that this is actually something that is part of their tradition.

In Christ,

BOB

I think it is really the ONLY appropriate liturgical posture for praying the Our Father!

The Maronites have the orans position as the norm while praying the Our Father, but definitely no hand-holding.

None of the Indian Churches approve of this practice, although some younger people have picked it up from the Latin Church.

Personally, I find it distracting unless everyone is doing it like in the Maronite Church.

I am asking from the eastern rite position. I am Byzantine (Greek Eastern) and have not seen it done by many in my church, which was pushed toward Latin ways through my childhood but is now moving back towards tradition. I see it very beautiful and pray the Our Father with my eyes closed as not to be distracted.

As our brother, Michael_Thoma, points out, there seems to be much diversity of practice in the Eastern Churches. My friend, the Orthodox priest, says that while it is a custom in the Russian Church his people don't use it for the most part. It's something quite new in the Latin Church and comes from those who want to blur the line between the clergy and the laity.

BOB

In the Latin Rite the orans posture at the Our Father is a non-prescribed imitation of the posture of the priest. A deacon if present is not permitted to adopt this posture. So it represents an expression of individual piety.

The orans was pushed by some as a way of discouraging communal hand-holding prior to the "kiss" of peace, which, when it becomes a general practice, undermines the liturgy at that point.

In general, the Church does not heavily regulate the posture of the laity at the mass so doing the orans is ok. Whether it is desirable or not is another question. I personally find it distasteful.

I would ask those who do it if they always pray this way or just at the Our Father at mass and what it means when they do it.

Well, I feel that it is very meditative and honorable to "lift up" and recognize the prayer God Himself gave us to pray. It is the most direct prayer in the Liturgy as far as I am concerned. Much of the liturgy is worked toward the "ability" to reciet the Our Father.

To me it isn't just words or just another prayer during liturgy.

Postures are done out of respect and honor, just as the sign of the cross is done. If one was to agrue the use of postures then one would have to question why the sign of the cross? or why does the priest have to do so many during liturgy? Before you know it it becomes a protestent service.

Look at it from a beauty standpoint and not jut silly functions.

Dear Stivvy,

You wrote "To me it isn't just words or just another prayer during liturgy."

Keep in mind the entire liturgy, from beginning to end, isn't just another prayer or just words. Though one may be moved during certain parts the liturgy itself should be viewed as a whole.

If everyone prays orans while praying the "Our Father", then by all means do so. I refrain from using the orans or holding hands simply because it isn't prescribed in the Latin church.

I often find myself praying orans when praying privately. I also often find myself rocking back and forth as the Jews do.

When in church though, especially during liturgy, I do as the "Romans" do.

In Christ,
Bill

RCGuest,

Interesting you say that, about the rocking motion. I often catch myself in the motion inadvertently when chanting(or hearing the chant of) to the Holy Qurbono of the Malankara/Syriac Church, when a priest celebrates the Missa Cantata of the Latin Mass, or during the anaphora/Eucharistic prayers of the Maronite Holy Qurbono. To me the rhythm and mantra are inescapable.

In the Melkite Church we pray with the orans posture during the Our Father.

The 'kiss of peace' though seems very informal and as a really brief moment in the Divine Litugry. We do not shake hands like the Latins, nor do we use the Syrian peace (Maronites/Chaldeans). We rather use the double (or triple) cheek-kiss embrace.

Though I've only ever been to one Eastern Catholic parish and so can't even speak for other Ruthenian parishes, our practice is exactly the same as that described by Laka: orans during the Our Father, no hand-shaking, and a 'three-kiss embrace' during the peace (though this is mostly performed by the clergy and altar servers).

Trust me, I do as the Spirit leads me. I also do celebrate the whole litergy and I have studied it also. So I am very aware of the movements happening there too.

Interesting because I have observed Muslims always praying like this with palms facing upward during their daily prayers. Have also seen (on TV)Iraqi Christians praying like this.

I wonder if we are discussing two gestures here: 1) arms down, hands open, palms facing forward and up and 2) arms up, hands at shoulder level or above, palms facing forward but not upward.

It is #2 that I find distasteful and an imitation of the posture of the priest. #1 seems like an appropriate gesture for any prayer liturgical or not that is prayed standing.