www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Is this proper?

I have questioned a priest on EWTN about this, but he has yet to get back to me. So let me get some others opinions.

Here's the deal: I want to start going to Vespers on Saturday night in preparation for Holy Communion on Sunday. My Byzantine church doesn't have this service. However, my local Orthodox church does, its an OCA church. Would it be appropriate or proper to attend Vespers at the Orthodox church? I understand that the Catholic Church says that a Catholic can fulfill their Sunday obligation at an Orthodox church. I wonder if its OK to attend Vespers at one. Also, what would the Orthodox say? Would I be welcomed to pray with them?

What does everybody think?

It's perfectly OK to pray Vespers at an Orthodox church. A number of our parisioners do that. We don't have Vespers, and the Orthodox do. On the whole, our folks have been welcomed. With Vespers there is not the awkwardness of un-share-able Communion. It's a time to pray. Go, enjoy, and pray for me, who am a sinner.


Christ is risen!


Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Dear Columcille,

Your question, I believe, could best be answered by a story involving St. Andrew Sheptytsky, Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan of Galicia.

The mother of the future Blessed Martyr Leonid Fyodorov became a Byzantine Catholic in Russia.

Coming from a very pious tradition in which she daily attended Orthodox Vespers etc., the Polish RC priest who became her confessor absolutely forbade her from ever even going inside an Orthodox Church. Daily Vespers and Matins could not yet be served for her as a Russian Byzantine Catholic.

When St Andrew visited her, she opened her heart to him and told him how much she missed the services of Matins and Vespers and kissing the Cross etc.

But she said she understood she could not go to an Orthodox Church for these services as a Catholic, and so that was that.

Then St Andrew turned to her and said, "But Madam, why could you not attend daily Matins and Vespers (in the Orthodox Church)? The Cross is holy! The prayers of the services are holy! Why could you not?"

This brought such joy and happiness to Leonid's mother!

So, following St Andrew's advice, Columcille, you can and should attend Vespers at the OCA Church when you cannot have the service at your own Church.

My in-laws' Byzantine Catholic parish joyfully receives many Orthodox Christians who come to attend services, including the Divine Liturgy and they do go to Communion, although they go to an Orthodox Church for confession and Communion for Pascha.

They even asked the parish priest if they need to formally "become Catholic." He told them, "no, you are welcome here anytime."

I too was invited to attend Vespers, Matins and the Liturgy at our local OCA parish. And the priest, God bless him, was convinced that I would make a good Orthodox convert (Brendan, what do you think?) etc.

My advice is St Andrew's advice, "The Cross and the prayers of the services are holy - go!" If Brendan is indicative of the general attitude of the OCA, you will be warmly welcomed.

God bless,

Alex

[This message has been edited by Orthodox Catholic (edited 05-01-2001).]

IRISH --

Under the Eastern Catholic canon law, I believe that Vespers satisfies the "Sunday Obligation".

As for the Orthodox, non-Orthodox are welcome to pray with us at *any* of our services, and to do anything that does not involve a sacrament (ie, confession, communion, anointing, etc.). As a practical matter, some communities are more open and welcoming to outsiders (whether Orthodox or not) than others are, and I don't know anything about the parish close to where you live.

Brendan

I think joining in Vespers at the Orthodox Church would be okay, in fact it would be more than okay. It would be a participation in the common liturgical life of the Church. It might also be a good place to pray for the unity of the Church so we can fully share Eucharistic Communion with the Orthodox on a regular basis.

>>>Under the Eastern Catholic canon law, I believe that Vespers satisfies the "Sunday Obligation". <<<

How would Vespers satisfy the obligation to go to Liturgy? They are two different things, no?

As a side note; the priest at the church has an Irish last name, which makes me feel comfortable

[This message has been edited by fightingIrish (edited 05-01-2001).]

My OCA priest is Irish, too.

I really do think that the Eastern Canons provide that Vespers "counts" for the Sunday obligation. Can any Eastern Catholic canon law expert (read: someone who has the code handy) validate this?

Brendan

I have the Code of Eastern Canons at home. I'll have to check later.

>>>I really do think that the Eastern Canons provide that Vespers "counts" for the Sunday obligation. Can any Eastern Catholic canon law expert
(read: someone who has the code handy) validate this?<<<

You are correct; however, my suggestion to institute Saturday Vespers in my parish in order to offer an alternative to those of our members who (especially in the summer) feel the need to attend Saturday evening Mass at nearby "Our Lady of an Early Start for the Beach) was shot down because (in this eparchy, anyway) the reigning hierarch hasn't signed on to this particular canon, yet.

I can only add my signature to what others have said here. In a word, go!

Here's the deal: I want to start going to Vespers on Saturday night in preparation for Holy Communion on Sunday. My Byzantine church doesn't have this service. However, my local Orthodox church does, its an OCA church. Would it be appropriate or proper to attend Vespers at the Orthodox church?

Yes.

I understand that the Catholic Church says that a Catholic can fulfill their Sunday obligation at an Orthodox church.

Yes.

I wonder if its OK to attend Vespers at one.

Yes. Catholicism says you can!

Also, what would the Orthodox say?

Ideally, �Welcome and thanks for coming. Come again!�

Would I be welcomed to pray with them?

Brendan has answered this. There is no good reason why not.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>

I once heard a Byzantine Catholic Priest say that he would never have Vespers on Saturday night. He had to have Liturgy, or he would lose people to the local Roman Church who wanted (or needed) to attend on Saturday. He was afraid of losing his congregation.

If the same logic applies, perhaps he will be convinced to celebrate Vespers out of the same fear, of losing people to Orthodox Vespers?

Christian

Thank you all for your replies. The priest on EWTN has also answered my question in the affirmative.

BTW, I know alot of you are uneasy with EWTN, Dr.Carrol in particular, but are you familiar with Fr.Levis? He runs the Doctrine Forum. He is very complimentary toward the Byzantine and Orthodox Churches. I think he has a better understanding of the important role the Byzantines play in the Catholic Church.

Just thought I'd pass along that there is some support for Byzantines at EWTN

[Also, what would the Orthodox say?

Ideally, �Welcome and thanks for coming. Come again!�]

Exactly! In my parish we have both Roman Catholics (including a RC nun and a RC novice) and a Lutheran lady who have been attending Saturday night Vespers for over ten years. No one either asks them, nor expects them to convert. When they don't show up we worry about them. When they are sick we pray and light candles for them.
Sister Holy Spirit now has a problem with night vision so doesn't attend Wednesday's Akfist or Saturday Vespers as much as she would like to. But you can still see her come into the Chapel, light a candle, and say a prayer before the Icon of 'Our Lady of Vladimir', and pick up the Sunday bulletin (which is waiting for her), before going to Mass on Sunday.

The local OCA priest presents the cross and greets each individual using Church Slavonic, English or Greek. He knows that I am RC and uses Latin. That always made me feel welcome there.

Fighting Irish,

That has generally been my experience with Fr. Levis. He is much friendlier with us, and far less polemical. He is also open to learning more about the Christian East, without stubbornly claiming to be the last word. And he has never tried to sell me one of his books either!

I have also had generally positive experiences with Colin Donovan, EWTN's vice president of theology. He is very reasonable, and approaches our Churches in a fair light.

Anthony