www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why Mary and is it ok

I am a Byzantine Catholic, however I believe that the orthodox are correct when it comes to the teaching of the immaculate conception of Mary. To think other wise, would maker her redeemer equal to Christ. To take away her with humanity would make her a no longer human, she in fact would be a different kind. Christ had to redeem fallen humanity—how could he if Mary was already a perfect creation, she in fact would be a redeemer by her very nature since it was her that was transformed in the womb of st. ann. On the other hand, she did posses some type of gift of the Spirit that enabled her to remain pure form personal sin. I do not contend with the dogmas of my church, but I do believe that the Immaculate Conception happened when she came into union with the Holy Ghost at the annunciation. At this point she became defied, transformed into the New Eve. I do believe the reconciliation of humanity began at this point. I welcome for understanding on this topic and would also like to know if I am allowed to believe this understanding on Mary and still be apart of the Byzantine Catholic Church. Also, if I am able to approach this dogma in this fashion is there any Church documentation that declares me the permission to do so.

Thanks Broric

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Broric ]

Hello:

The Catholic Church never denies the full humanity of the Mother of God, not her need for the grace of salvation in Christ.

It is precisely the grace and salvific work of Our Lord Jesus Christ the one that preserved Mary from all sin and from all stain of sin even from her conception.

God is timeless.

If you wish to believe that the Original Sin doesn't imply a "stain", you might do so, many Byzantine Catholics do. This theological opinion actually validates, more than contradicts, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

As someone else said in this same forum, I rather line up with those who celebrate the total holiness of the Theotokos than with those who insist in finding a trace of sin in her prior to the announciation.

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Broric,

Again, this is a mistaken understanding of what the Immaculate Conception, as a doctrine, "does."

The Orthodox Church has always believed in the total holiness and sinlessness of the Mother of God. It is something that has to do with honour we give to our Incarnate Lord, rather than with the Theotokos in the first instance.

"Original Sin" was understood by the Eastern Fathers as the "consequences of Adam's sin" that we have inherited, namely, death, concupiscence etc.

Augustine believed in Original Sin as inherited guilt or as something by which we inherit Adam's sin.

But how can we share in the personal sin of another, the East would ask?

We cannot. But just as Adam's human nature, that we share with him, fell in his sin, so too that nature that is communicated to us is fallen, weak and is destined for death.

The liturgical, deuterocanonical and other tradition of the Orthodox Church has, again, always affirmed the total holiness and sinlessness of the Mother of God from the womb of St Anne which is why the "Conception of St Anne (of the Mother of God)" is even celebrated liturgically (only the feast of a saint may be celebrated) and why the Feast of the Nativity of the Mother of God is celebrated.

To those Orthodox who do not believe this, please review your rich liturgical tradition pertaining to the Mother of God and show even ONE miniscule example where it is said the Mother of God was in any kind of sin!

It would be intolerable and an offence against Christ the Incarnate God to think that His Mother, from whom He received HIs Flesh and Blood with which to save us by His Life, Death and Resurrection, could ever be said to be under the authority of satan, which she would have been had she been in sin, even for the twinkling of an eye.

"Original Sin" is no "stain" but a condition of weakness that we've inherited from Adam.

In the East, even after we've been cleansed in confession, we can still call ourselves "sinful" since that is the condition of our human nature.

Alex