www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Terminology w/r/t saints

Dear Dr. Bob,

I bow to your knowledge, erudition, keen insight and spirituality!

I will download your post and keep it with me in my wallet!

Alex

Dear Dr. Alex,

There is nothing to forgive. I do not use the title, even in religious circles! In fact, when I was given Melkite faculties they did ask about my education, my Latin bishop during my diaconal formation did not.

Dear Dr. Bob,

Yes, the title can only be given by certain institutions. In the Latin circle only a pontifical insititution can grant it. In the Orthodox circles the rules are a little broader. In my case I attended a now-defunct Orthodox (non-canonical)school. The primary reason was that it was a 100% extern program that fit my needs and schedule. It took about five years to complete (the last year under fear of the school closing for lack of funds) -- two years of study, two years to write the dissertation and nearly a year of revisions. Instructors were available through the internet for consultation. The dissertation committee actually met formally only for the defense process, otherwise they communicated by phone or internet. In fact, I only personally met with my advisor twice! All other interaction was via the phone or email.

The process was, um, interesting as it lead to a lot of self-initiated work that might not have happened in a more formal environment.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Fr Deacon Edward,

My view is if one has EARNED a doctoral degree (that rules out honorary degrees) one has the right to be called "Dr'.

The only exceptions I know of in English are lawyers (who have a juris doctor degree) and British veterinarians, who AFAIK are "Mr' (Miss, etc.).

Was it a difficult process to obtain your STD?

Whoa — major double-entendre material! In American English those initials have a rather different meaning.

http://oldworldrus.com

Serge,

Yes, one has the right to be called Dr. -- but that degree is of far less import to me than the title the Church has given me, or the title my children call me, or what my grandchildren call me. Besides which, if people call me "Dr." someone might think I could do them some good!

Edward, deacon and sinner

Bless me a sinner, Rev. Fr. Dcn. Ed and Reader Sergius!

Actually, the calling of a physician "doctor" is of late provenance.

(Surgeons in Britain are called "Mr." because their profession originated with barbers who did blood-letting for very sick persons. This is why the barber's symbol of red and blue flowing lines.)

"Doctor" is "teacher" and there was a time when physicians were more about teaching one how to prevent getting sick than with treating you when you got sick, as obtains today.

I know some Ph.D.'s that really go overboard with the title thing.

Sometimes they write "Dr." at the beginning of their name, followed by their doctoral designation, as if we twice needed to be reminded that we are dealing with a "formidable" type here . . .

One problem I've found working as a Ph.D. for employers with less formal education is that they like to "stick it to you" for your title. "Well, I know that and I just finished high school!" Or, "Come on, you are the Ph.D.!" and much worse than that.

Unless one is working in an academic setting or with colleagues, it is best to keep that "Dr." thing under wraps.

Those of my acquaintances who do find out I have a Ph.D. often say, quite patronizingly, "Didn't you have to work real hard to get that?"

To which I always reply, "Not at all, it was a cinch - if I could do it, so can you!"

This has taught me humility.

But, once in a while, I like to say, at least in private, "Nah, nah,nah-hahhhh! I've got a Ph.D.! "
I think the mental harassment has had its toll on me . . .

And I believe any Jesuit saint is a patron of Ph.D.'s and STD's. Weren't they famous for doctoring all kinds of things?
Alex

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Yuppers, that's a roger. St. Ignatius Loyola envisioned the Society of Jesus as being missionaries to the poor and the uneducated. But, at the same time, he ensured that his men were also highly educated and highly disciplined. (A former Marine was a classmate of mine; he said the Marines were a piece of cake compared to [traditional] Jesuit training.) And he established residential 'collegia' for the sons of the wealthy and powerful; the idea was: if you can train the young men who will hold the reins of power, you'll have allies for the Church when times get tough. And the toughness of the educational program attracted many wealthy and powerful families.

In general, I do use the title "Dr." in an offhand way when I begin my trainings. It gives the participants confidence that it's not just some other union-sponsored session. And it greases the skids for management who are more likely to let the union do a health and safety training if it's going to be 'quality'. Let's face it: the end DOES justify the means in this case!

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

As the Anglican, John Mason Neale, once wrote, "If by 'Jesuit' you mean a follower of Jesus, then I pray God that we all are such Jesuits."

I grew up in the shadow of the Jesuit Martyrs' Shrine in Midland, Ontario. My mother lit candles there to have a child, since my father had tuberculosis in a part of his body.

I was later born on the Jesuit Feast of the Martyrs and my middle name is "Jean-de-Brebeuf."

The Jesuits have done a lot of good for the Church, to be sure.

It would be wrong, I believe, to deny their various and unfortunate political involvements that ultimately led to their papal suppression.

In Ukraine and Russia, the Jesuits were in the forefront of the Uniate movements and, in Ukraine at least, the Polish Jesuits were involved in the "take-over" of the Eastern Church aimed at its ultimate Latinization and Polonization.

But, other than that, they were O.K. . . .

As you say, Blessings!

Alex

If by their prayers they gave you to the world, then yes, I'd agree that the Jesuits have done a lot of good for the Church.

Now if those Indians who 300-400 years ago vowed never to be under the yoke of the Jesuits would just agree...

Dr. Bob,
Does a doctorate in astrophysics mean that you helped to build and now help to maintain the Houston Astrodome? Can you get me good seats for any Astros games for the 2002 Season?
monk Silouan

Father Silouan, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, because I mean it in a spirit of lightheartedness, and because one Indian monk did take it the wrong way once, until it was translated for him so that he understood it wasn't an insult to monasticism (long story), but I would love to go to a football game with a monk in full habit. That would be so cool!

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Mor Ephrem ]

Dear Catholicos,

Isn't there enough "monk-ying" around at ball games?

And what do you think of those Patriots, eh?

Our old farm near Penetanguishene was actually once part of the earliest Jesuit Mission of St Nicolas there and is where St Jean de Brebeuf constructed the first French-Huron dictionary.

I still go by that old farm to reflect and think.

St Jean de Brebeuf, in his 1636 diaries or Relations, mentioned that he would walk by that area himself and tearfully recalled the Jesuits' first efforts in Huronia. Something I have in common with my patron as well.

I was there once when a boy came riding on a bicycle. I told him that I too grew up at that old farm and told him that he should appreciate it since he will miss it and will come back as I was doing.

Then we shook hands and he drove off. I then shouted after him, "What's your name, by the way?"

"Alex," he shouted back. It was like one of those "Twilight Zone" moments ...

Alex

Dear Dr. Alex,
I have always cherished a deep love and veneration for St. Jean De Brebeuf and his companion martyrs. I never got to Midland, got crippled long before that was possible but spent many pleasant and grace-filled days in Auriesville. As a matter of fact, with some S.J. connections, I was able to obtain some (now don't get queasy) soil from the site of the martyrdoms of SS. Jean de Brebeuf and Gabriel Lalemant which contains their body fat as they were burned at the stake. I also received a fragment from the stakes of reach of the martyrs I just mentioned. They are publically venerated, together with their bones, in the chapel by anyone wishing to honor these great Saints.
Holy Martyr Saints of North America pray unto God for us!
Mor Ephrem: Yes, I would love to go to a football game, full habit or not! Unfortunately it is darn near impossible for me to go most anywhere. This morning I actually rolled off the bed and hurt my right shoulder; just another pain that I do not need. Ouch!
unworthy Silouan

Dear Dr. Alex and Catholicos Mor Ephrem,

Going to a ballgame with a monk in full habit would be far better than going to a ballgame with a monk in _half_ a habit, eh?

Dr. Bob,
I am married to a physics-type (who didn't get the chance to finish the degree...someday....) now employed as houseparent & Mad Scientist Homeschooler. He's a Preacher's Kid, too. Life at our house is rarely dull. How many families have a Van de Graaf generator in the living room??

Monk Silouan, (Father, bless!)
Sometimes I think you might spell your name "Silly-one".... Would it be out of line to ask if there might be aught that any of us could do to enhance your mobility?

On the Alphabet Soup business, Dave Barry once proposed an Unnecessary Letters Tax on such usage.

Hmmmmm....

Officiously & officially yours,

Sharon Mech, SFO, MHSA (em, o, you, ess, eeeeeee)
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Father Silouan, you and your shoulder are in my prayers...feel better! and pray for me always!

Bless me a sinner, Father Silouan!

Sorry about your shoulder! St John of Damascus and the Icon of the Three Hands will be invoked today on your behalf!

(Were you eating a pretzel just before this happened? You Americans seem to have difficulty with pretzels . . .).

Yes, on March 21, 1649, the French retrieved the remains of Sts. Jean de Brebeuf and Gabriel Lalement. They boiled the relics to separate the flesh from the bones and the flesh they buried at Ste. Marie among the Hurons . . .

There is the Indian Chapel at the site with no floor. The Indians believed that the spirits moved up and down through the earth and to put a floor there would be to offend them.

My in-laws cottage up there is not too far from the site of the village of Joseph Chiwatenhwa, one of the first Christians in Huronia who, with his wife, were the first to receive the Sacrament of Matrimony in Ontario. His cause in Rome is now pending.

Auriesville is much larger than our Midland Shrine and I hope to travel there this summer.

Alex