The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
FireOfChrysostom, mashoffner, wietheosis, Deb Rentler, RusynRose
6,208 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 2,469 guests, and 121 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,542
Posts417,793
Members6,208
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#77680 08/16/02 10:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
In another thread, the following quote can be read:

With regards to kneeling, Church history and Orthodox tradition teach that at the beginning of Christianity, everyone participated in the Divine Liturgy daily, not just on Sundays. Since they knelt during the daily Liturgies, they did not kneel on Sundays.

If at the very beginning, the custom was daily Liturgy, how did we come to the customs that prevail today? How is it that now daily Liturgy is not the normal practice of Eastern Christianity, while it is of Latin Christianity?

#77681 08/16/02 11:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Quote
Originally posted by Mor Ephrem:
In another thread, the following quote can be read:

With regards to kneeling, Church history and Orthodox tradition teach that at the beginning of Christianity, everyone participated in the Divine Liturgy daily, not just on Sundays. Since they knelt during the daily Liturgies, they did not kneel on Sundays.

If at the very beginning, the custom was daily Liturgy, how did we come to the customs that prevail today? How is it that now daily Liturgy is not the normal practice of Eastern Christianity, while it is of Latin Christianity?

In point of fact, it was never the custom of the Church of Constantinople or its offshoots to celebrate the Eucharist daily (See Taft's essay "On the Frequency of Communion", in Beyond East and West). The Byzantine Churches tended to view the Eucharist not merely as a meal, but as a banquet, and NOT celebrating on a daily basis (outside of monastic and certain cathedral settings) reinforced that attitude: the non-liturgical days reinforced the notion of the Eucharist as being something out of the ordinary.

You will note in an earlier post on the subject I said that the idea that kneeling began because the people were not attending liturgy daily was an ex post facto rationalization of current useage.

#77682 08/17/02 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
Taft's excellent book on the Liturgy of the Hours in both East and West (whose exact title escapes me presently on account of pre-moving chaos in my library) makes it clear that daily liturgy was NOT a custom of the early Church, but that daily attendance at what we now call Matins and Vespers very much was; indeed, he cites an impressive number of the Fathers who argued that such attendance was imperative.
Taft regards daily Eucharist as a very late, very modern, very Western phenomenon, introduced in the West following the 12th century mendicant orders and then taking off with a vengeance in the 16th century, largely--but not entirely--under the Jesuit dispensation from prayer in common. By the time of Trent, he argues, the liturgy of the hours qua liturgy (ie., as work in common of the people) was almost entirely replaced with the "breviary" as a private prayer book. The tradition of the hours sung in common--never mind in parish churches--was then dead in the West and daily Mass grew to replace it.
As for the question, Why do many Eastern parishes not celebrate the hours in commmon, Taft does not give much of an answer. What are the thoughts of the Forum? Is it a result of Eastern churches existing in a Western context, where--not to put too fine a point on it--a "crackerjack sacramentology" (to use the fine phrase of someone on here whose name escapes me) exists, and no service is worth attending if you don't get a 'prize,' ie., sacramental communion?

#77683 08/17/02 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
Having just posted that, I of course remembered something else I wanted to add, viz., that daily Divine Liturgy in Eastern monastic communities IS a custom--at least in the Ukrainian churches with which I am familiar. The origins of this tradition are unknown to me.

#77684 08/20/02 09:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Adam,

Daily Divine Liturgy is a custom throughout our Church and the origins of it are in the Latin Church . . .

Alex

#77685 08/23/02 07:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,103
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,103
Dear Brothers,

I totally agree with the jist of what's being said in this thread. But only, I think there is a western exception to the rule. Did not the Anglican Church maintain the custom of celebrating the Canonical Hours in common well after the Reformation?

Der-Ghazarian

#77686 08/26/02 09:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Der-Ghazarian,

Yes, indeed!

The Anglican Book of Common Prayer is a revised version of the Benedictine method of reading scripture sequentially and reciting the Psalms.

Cranmer "squeezed" the Morning Hours into Mattins, established a Midday service with Litany, and then had Evensong and Compline later in the day, although Morning and Evening Prayer were the two "hinges" of the Anglican Office.

In the reign of King Charles the First, the family of the Anglican Deacon Nicholas Ferrar retired to Little Gidding where they celebrated the Prayer-book Offices daily in the Chapel of their semi-monastic community their.

They also recited 12 psalms at the turn of each hour throughout the day - and night - thus reciting the Psalter, in accordance with Coptic monastic practice, twice in one day.

Alex


Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2025 (Forum 1998-2025). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0