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I've been reading posts here for a while and I'm a little confused about how Eastern Rite Catholics view the Chair of St Peter and the Catholic Church. I always thought Eastern Rite Catholics believed the same thhings I do doctrinally, but had different, and in many ways richer, disciplines and liturgical traditions.

I'm confused because I've seen people encourage disobedience to Rome here and rejoice when people anounce that they are leaving the Catholic Church for Eastern Orthodoxy. I'm not trying to attack anyone or anything like that, I just want to understand.

in the Sacred Heart and the Immaculata,

prostrate before St Peter's chair,

your servant

Nobody has anything to say?

Could you provide some examples?

I for one am always sad when someone leaves the Catholic Church but I also wish them well.

As to disobedience to Rome it depends what you mean. If reclaiming the fullenss of our tradition means defying Curial officials sometimes so be it. This is usually, if not exclusively, in regard to ordaining maried men to the presbyterate as otherwise the Curia pays no attention to us. As to disobedience to the Holy Father himself I have never seen this on our forum.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Welcome onto the forum St. Peter

In a forum people often don't agree with everything, and there may even be some significant issues on which we differ...but we look for growing unity in Christ.

Unity In Christ

May the peace of Christ be with you Deacon,

Perhaps my understanding of the function of the Curia is incorrect, but I thought the Roman Curia's decisions were universal (i.e. binding on the whole of Christ's Church). The Curia cannot move without the Holy Father's assent. Married Eastern Rite priests aren't allowed in the west (at least the US), because it tends to scandalize a large portion of the faithful and because the Roman Rite's movement for married priest's has been unfortunately tied in fact, and in the public mind, with the heretical movement for the ordination of women.

in the Sacred Heart and the Immaculata,

prostrate before St Peter's chair,

your servant


May the peace of Christ be with you Unity,

Thank you for your kind response.

in the Sacred Heart and the Immaculata,

prostrate before St Peter's chair,

your servant

Peter:

According to the current code of canon law for the Eastern Catholic Churches there is no longer a restriction on the Eastern Catholic Churches ordaining married men to the priesthood.

With regard to the curia, it's the pope's administrative wing. As such, it is part of his function as the Patriarch of the West and does not have direct authority over Eastern Catholic Churches. There is, however, a dicastery that deals with the Eastern Catholic Churches and it is headed by an Eastern Catholic bishop.

The pope is in a unique position because not only is he the Patriarch of the West, but he has direct and universal authority. This includes power that can be used in the Eastern Catholic Churches. The last time I saw this used was when Patriarch Maximos V was dying and the Melkite synod did not choose an administrator to run the Church. Because of this lacuna the Holy Father did intervene and choose one (probably the man the synod would have choosen!). However, this pope has wisely taken a position that says he does not interfere unless he must.

In fact, this has been the position of many of the popes, but has not been the position of the curia which has often gotten involved in what the Eastern Catholic Churches.

As for your initial observations, from a doctrinal standpoint we hold the same truths, although we will frequently express them differently.

Edward, deacon and sinner

St Peter,

you really need to read up on the history of the Eastern Catholic Churches especially their relationships with Rome!!
Most Romans would not defend the forcing of celibacy on Eastern Catholic priests (in North America) today. That was a great tragedy which only now is being redressed!

I am always getting reprimanded on the forum for being too critical of Orthodoxy and too Roman so I understand your concern. It does seem that a lot of folks here are indifferent about people breaking communion with Peter.
On the other hand, I do not agree with you about married priests scandalizing Westerners: there are currently more married Western priests [former Anglicans or Lutherans] in the US than there are married Eastern Catholic priests. The American Roman Catholic hierarchy's insistence on a celibate clergy for Eastern Catholics has sparked more than one schism. And the current Holy Father [God grant him many years] as well as an Ecumenical Council [Vatican II] have encouraged the Eastern Churches to reclaim their traditions. The movement for a restoration of the married priesthood in the East is a very positive development.
I think one reason Western Catholics get concerned about this is that the movement in their own Church toward a married priesthood is motivated by a very different spirit: it is often springing from a lack of respect for celibacy, if not plain horniness.
It should be noted that the discipline of celibacy in the West is not in great health at the present time: increasingly priests live solitary lives, often with two or more parishes, and with full access to cable TV and computers. It can bring out the weirdness in you...the Christian East seems to acknowledge that few are called to solitude, that most men need a community of brothers or they need the community of family. Perhaps the West should reexamine the discipline in light of this insight?

May the peace of Christ be with you,

I do need to read up on the history of the Eastern Rites, I didn't even know they existed until my 87 year-old grandmother "came-out" as a Maronite a few years ago.

I didn't mean to give offense by stating the case for requiring celibacy of Eastern Rite priests in North America. It just seems to me to be an understandable action as long as celibacy is required in the Roman Rite (converts excepted).

Btw II don't actually believe in required celibacy in the Roman or Eastern Rites. I dunno what I'm trying to say.

I have six kids, seven counting the husband. I am easily confused.

in the Sacred Heart and the Immaculata,

prostrate before St Peter's chair,

your servant

Gory to Jesus Christ!

Hello Saint Pete!
Welcome to the Forum!

It sounds like you do need to read up in the worst way!
Oh, that is a most unfortunate answer. It can never be an understandable action. One Sui Juris church should not have that kind of preeminence over another!

First thing I would recommend that you read the FAQ.

Secondly, please understand that not all of the posters here are Catholic, not all of the Moderators are in communion with Rome. That's OK because this is a board for Eastern Christians and all those who may have a respectful interest in Eastern Christianity. Some of the most brilliant (or clever) and even saintly people post and read here at times (everybody blush!), and some cantankerous buzzards too. They come from all backgrounds.

The Administrator instructs us that this is not strictly a Byzantine Catholic board and we accept that.

I would like to address your first post as well, because I think that we will need to come to an understanding.

Yes, I am truly saddened that some Catholics chose to become Orthodox, I wish they wouldn't, but I wish them all the best. When a rational and sincere Christian makes such a decision we must respect it, it's not a time to freak out and argue. Most of us respect each other enough to accept "the things we cannot change" even if with a heavy heart, and be advised, there are Orthodox who come to Rome as well, and some people who have migrated between the churches "there and back again".

In the Catholic Communion of churches (22, basically) only one has it's own Code of Canon law, the others all share a different code. There are two basic theological perspectives: the Western, and the Eastern one that I guess we could say is generally shared by 21 churches with varied cultural roots from around the globe.

In many ways Eastern Catholics may see themselves very much as Orthodox, and may feel much more in common with the various Orthodox churches than with the Roman Catholic church, which as I have explained is somewhat unique.

The position of the Catholic churches today is that the Orthodox are actually part of the One True church, our lack of shared communion being a scandal. Even today an eastern Orthodox christian will not be refused communion in any Catholic church anywhere should they request it. Our Catholic communion recognizes the separated Orthodox brothers as having apostolic succession and valid orders, valid sacraments, valid theology (the theology is shared by eastern Catholics).

Eastern Catholics possibly will not view Rome as their mother church. Byzantine Catholics (for example) have a strong attachment to the memory of the great church of Holy Wisdom in Constantinople as their source of tradition and faith. The fact that there is separation between sister churches is primarily a tragedy, we can hope some day that the problem will be settled.

Of course we recognize that there are some Orthodox who do not respect the position of the Eastern Catholic churches. Often they are very vocal in their criticism, one of the most serious complaints is that the Eastern Catholic churches are actually Roman Catholic in disguise. The fact that we know this to be a false allegation does not prevent us from being attributed with the very same qualities by well meaning Roman Catholics!

The Eastern churches have endured a considerable amount of persecution in their troubled history, not only from Orthodox and Godless state governments but from the Roman Catholic hierarchy as well. Their position is remarkable in the church, they have earned the right to call themselves Catholic. I highly recommend that you stick around to learn as much as you can, you will not regret it.

In Christ,
Michael

Very well said !

May the Blessed Mother of God cover you with Her Mantle Coalesco,

Saying that there are different perspectives, different points of view, is one thing, but there is a huge body of important doctrinal difference separating Catholicism and Orthodoxy on things ranging from Papal Authority to the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin.

I'm going to try to find a way to say this that won't give anyone offense, Eastern Catholic or Orthodox, but why would a Catholic feel closer to an Orthodox Christian than to another Catholic. When my Great-Grandparents moved to Alabama from Lebanon in 1920 there wasn't a Maronite Parish in Birmingham, but there were two Orthodox Churches, they chose to go to a Roman Rite parish rather, because they recognized that truth in its fullness was in only one church, the Church they had belonged to all of their lives, the Catholic Church.

I come in peace in an attempt to understand the beliefs of a group of memembers of my Church that I have little opportunity to interact with, if my confusion my questions, or my unabashed Papism are going to be disruptive I'll go elsewhere.

in the Sacred Heart and the Immaculata,

prostrate before St Peter's chair,

your servant

ps

re:suis juris...if by one church having authority over another you mean Latin Bishops trying to force Latin customs on Eastern Catholcs I agree, but if you mean the Head of Christ's Church, the Roman Pontiff, using his universal authority, I don't agree.

I think in our lifetimes celibacy will optional in the Latin Rite. Before this can happen though, the movement must be seperated from movements like the ordination of women, and a thousand other liberal heresies.

St Peter,

Welcome to the forum. Let me suggest some considerations that were likely involved in your Great-Grandparents' thought-processes back in 1920 when they made their choice of a church to attend.

As you may know, the Maronites are one of only 2 Churches sui iuris which have never been separated from communion with Rome; thus, there is no counterpart or Sister Church to the Maronite Church among those of the Orthodox communion. So, a Maronite Catholic would likely not have felt "at home" in an Orthodox church.

In fact, considering the degree of latinization that prevailed in the Maronite Rite at that point in its history, both here and in its homeland, a Latin Rite parish - except for the language - would have looked and felt much more familiar to a Maronite Catholic than an Orthodox parish.

That's not to say that commonality of culture and language didn't sometimes bring diverse religionists together. When the religious diversity of an ethnic community wasn't matched by the clergy available to serve it, there were instances where Maronites, Melkites, Syriac Catholics, Syrian Orthodox, and Syrian Jacobites could be found worshiping in common with whichever clergyman had settled in the place. Less common were instances when folks crossed the national/cultural/language boundaries.

Many years,

Neil

May the Peace of Christ be with you Neil,

I'm confused, the Church is the Church is the Church is all I can say. If there were no Roman Rite Parish available to me, but I had the choice of a Sedevacantist Parish (valid sacraments, but in schism) and an Eastern Rite Parish, I would go to the Eastern Rite Parish despite the difference in outward forms and ethnic composition. I think my grandmother's parents would have decided to stay in Christ's Church even there had been a "Sister Church" not in communion with Rome.

in the Sacred Heart and the Immaculata,

prostrate before St Peter's chair,

your servant

Mary Elizabeth