www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Can Christians celebrate the Passover?

Doctor Alex

I'm a little confused here. Your uncle is an agnostic Jew, yet you are the one organizing a Passover seder for him ?

If he's agnostic why lead him back toward Judaism ?

Dear Lawrence,

He's religiously agnostic - his identity is firmly Jewish, an identity he sees as basically "cultural."

My own view is that, simply put, being religiously Jewish is better than not being religious at all - not that celebrating Passover will somehow "convert" him to Judaism. He's been attending Passover all his life.

ALSO, that if I, as a Christian, can share with him the Passover, then perhaps we may just be sharing something that can be of benefit to us both in terms of "where we are" in our respective faith journeys.

If the Passover confirms his cultural identity, rather than his religious, metaphysical understanding/devotion, perhaps this may or may not be a springboard for other things.

If I can relate my Christian faith to its Jewish roots via this celebration, and do so with him, to meet him spiritually on SOME level - perhaps the "good" that can be had from that is a value that should be sought after by me.

I knew I could explain myself simply!

Alex

Dear Andrew,

I agree - I was just commenting on something my uncle would find relevant and I paid you a compliment that I think is based on fact, rather than a desire on my part to compliment you!

For me, the Passover would be a private way to share something with a relative that could bring us closer together and/or strengthen his faith journey - and I believe he is on one.

It could allow him to see Christianity in a different light - as it would allow me to do so as well.

The fact is that we have grown closer together, even though he is really my wife's uncle and not mine biologically or by marriage, at all.

He even refers to me as his "son" even though he has two biological sons, neither of which speak to him.

He has also named me as his sole beneficiary in the event of his death.

I don't think about that nor do I care about that.

I just mention it to show that we are close and that I want to encourage his spirituality, even though he sees it in cultural terms only.

Judaism is very close to us - I don't see any other non-Christian religion as close to us as Judaism is.

And I think that Christians are at their best when they are closest to their Jewish roots philosophically.

As Martin Buber said to a Protestant missionary who tried to convert him, "We Jews understood Him in a way you never will."

For me, the Passover is also a way to come closer to Christ.

Alex

Christ did. Why not?

Dear Alex,

It is probably just a coincidence that my namesake, Andrew under the moniker "Rilian," is completely correct in his posts, as I also tend to be.

His strong recommendation to you not to commemorate the Passover, except in the way the Church has taught us to commemorate it, is well-advised. There is a canon specifically prohibiting what you are thinking of doing. 'Do not celebrate the Pascha with the Jews' or words to that effect.

Alex, frankly, I have never heard you propose anything more preposterous than this one.

My advice: sit down and break bread and drink wine with your Uncle, enlightening him to the crucifixion and resurrection, and sharing with him that same love of Christ that you have brought to our Forum.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

You may also choose to offer him an old Navy dog's salute (from me) on this Veterans' Day.

To my Orthodox brothers,

Out of curiousity, would you also feel this way about attending a bar/bat mitzvah if you were to be invited, or a bris. Would you feel this way about lighting a Hannukah Menorah candle at your place of employment, would you feel this way if you were invited to your town's interfaith Thanksgiving service even if your (Orthodox) church was participating?

I have done most of these though I know that as a Christian, all events have been fulfilled in Christ Jesus. I have also delighted in hearing about Jews discovering their religion, I have eaten a challah bread baked by an Orthodox rabbi and greeted him when he came to pray the Sabbath prayers with one of my bosses in the back office, I have praised Israel to an Israeli girl and been interested in hearing stories of Purim, etc., etc., etc.

I do think that I have surprised some of my Jewish brethren, one of them even asking me, after saying how I wanted to visit Israel one day, "are you sure that you aren't Jewish?!?"

I do all this from my heart, as Alex does things from his, and I truly believe that I have been an ambassador of my faith, my religion and the Messiah, Christ. Infact, I have especially felt good when these acts of love are done to those of Russian descent and immigration, as I can show them a different face of Orthodox Christianity from that of the pogroms.

We are all ambassadors and icons of Christ, and if our actions, our love, our respect and our tolerance can shine to our elder brothers of faith, then one day, God willing, they may come to praise the Jewish Messiah, Jesus Christ, together with us Christians.

With love for all in Christ,
Alice

Dear Alex of the darkened mind, you said:

"Judaism is very close to us - I don't see any other non-Christian religion as close to us as Judaism is.

And I think that Christians are at their best when they are closest to their Jewish roots philosophically."

I say:

The Jews are the chosen people. Didn't God choose them to give us the 'Word'. Now I think we owe them a debt of gratitude...especially considering they have been suffering for two-thousand years because of our 'gain'.

As for dancing, I don't think that a passover feast will give you that. Actually it might help you and your uncle in your spiritual growth, but as for dancing, how about a 'bark' mitvah?

Now you can gather all the dogs in your neighborhood, and really have a good time dancing around them singing 'Hava Nagila', (or however it is spelled). Have fun!

Zenovia

I converted to the Catholic Church through exploring Orthodox Judaism, and the ties between the Apostalic Churches and Judaism some of my most treasured aspects of the Faith. I, for one, definately encourage Alex to share this experience with his uncle.

A true examination and experience of the Jewish Passover can only strengthen the faith of a devoted Christian, IMO. What's more, it can help us to see how much the Jewish people really do yearn for the Messiah, and can encourage us to share the good story of Jesus, albeit in a respectful way! Whenever I think of the Passover, I can't help but think of Simeon's recognition of the infant Jesus in the Temple, and his joyful proclaimation that the Messiah had truly come. It helps us get inside of Scripture in a tangible way, really experiencing the rituals that God Himself gave to the People of Israel.

It also brings us closer to Jesus in a certain sense, I think because when one celebrates the Passover you are stepping into the Tradition that He lived and breathed in His Incarnation. As a man He was a Jew, and He lived a faithful Jewish life. While Judaism has grown into the Faith that the Apostles gave us, it does us well to remember the way it was when they grew up. It helps us to see in a fresh light the Mystery that they experienced, and the Joy they received from it. So long as one keeps their devoted Christian perspective, I can see nothing but pious reflection in such activity.

There are also many elements of the Mass/Divine Liturgy that come directly from the Seder meal, and aspects of the Gospel that are best understood in the context of the Seder, IMO (such as Jesus not drinking "the fruit of the vine" until He was ready to die on the Cross, but that's a topic for another day and another thread). Experiencing it first hand can really help provide the "Semitic context" of the Gospels and the writings of the Apostles.

Alex, I hope you have a wonderful time with your uncle, no matter what you decide to do. I definately second the encouragement to look into the Hebrew Catholic organization, as their love and dedication to the Faith, and its Jewish roots, is enlightening and inspiring.

Peace, God bless, and mazel tov!

P.S. If dancing is what you want, Purim is the holiday. It's the celebration of the Book of Esther, and it's a time to be had! Just remember, NO MIXED-SEX DANCING!

Doctor Alex

After re-reading the thread, I have to agree with Andrew (Rilian) and Andrew Rubis. Others make interesting arguments, but Rilian makes one that simply stands alone for it's clarity "The Barech of the Seder dinner in particular shows why this is inappropriate for Christians. In that dinner a cup is poured and set aside for the prophet Elijah who is to herald the messiah who will come. It is an explicit denial that the messiah has already come. How could one partake in such a celebration?".

If you wish to truly make your uncle feel welcome and show appreciation for his Jewishness at the same time, there are other ways of doing so without treading down the pathway of religious ambiguity. Jewish food, Jewish music etc.

Dear Lawrence you said:

" In that dinner a cup is poured and set aside for the prophet Elijah who is to herald the messiah who will come. It is an explicit denial that the messiah has already come. How could one partake in such a celebration?"."

I say:

Yet we are both waiting for the same Messiah to come. They are waiting for Him to come for the first time, and we are waiting for Him to come for the second time...And in all His Glory.

Zenovia

Dear Andrew Rubis,

Frankly, I find your tone and wording to be offensive in the extreme.

What other things I have proposed that you find preposterous?

Sorry if my opposition to your view on consubstantiation still upsets you.

For your information, and also for that of the other Andrew and Lawrence, the Jewish Passover celebration is also promoted by a number of Catholic parishes here in Toronto and there is a department in the Archdiocese of Toronto that one may consult in preparing for it.

Our Passover celebration will be different than others insofar as it will have an implicit Christian interpretation, the one I give it.

And also the one a number of converts from Judaism I know give it who continue with it, including Hebrew Catholics and other Christians.

Your views are, for me, narrow in the extreme. Just when I thought it was a mistake to leave here for good . . .

I don't mind divergence of opinion. What I mind is when others try to ensure one complies with their point of view - or else. Or else one is preposterous, one is breaking the canons etc.

I'm happy for you that no one in the Orthodox Church has taken issue with your view on consubstantiation.

Anyway, I don't need this, I don't need to share issues in my life only to get slammed with canons, and nomenclature.

Sorry, but I 've had enough and it was truly a mistake for me to have come back.

With no regrets that I return to the peaceful fields of lurkerdom,

Alex

p.s. Shalom!

Dear Alex,

Now, now...

You needn't let my Orthodox brothers upset you when you have me to agree with you!

(or don't I count at all because I am just 'a girl' *pout*)

Some Orthodox are very rigid about things, but ofcourse you know that. :p

Without you sharing your interesting life and loving soul this forum would be very boring, and you should also know that...

So what is that old adage mothers tell their children..."IGNORE them!!!"

...and please come back to share!

Always fondly,
Alice, who tried to send this to the peacable kingdom, but her mail was not deliverable!

Dear Alex you said:

"our views are, for me, narrow in the extreme. Just when I thought it was a mistake to leave here for good . . . "

I say:

Please, please, please don't leave the forum. You can't even imagine how boring it is without you. Why are you doing this to us?

Zenovia

Dear Alice you said:

"Some Orthodox are very rigid about things, but ofcourse you know that."

Actually, most members of the Orthodox Church are not rigid...but they are the one's that are 'never' involved in anything with the Church, other than attendance and personal worship.

Zenovia

This is true Zenovia, the majority of my fellow Orthodox are not rigid.

In Christ,
Alice