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my dear ! i rather thought you might dig something up like that LOL i still prefer "Radusya" to "Ave" at times  
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Expanding on its breaking news yesterday, the Catholic World News came out later with a fuller account of the impending motu proprio to be issued by Pope Benedict XVI for the TLM's "universal indult": 11-October-2006 -- Catholic World News Feature Story
POPE WILL BROADEN USE OF LATIN MASS
Vatican, Oct. 11 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI is preparing to release a motu proprio extending permission for priests to celebrate the traditional Latin Mass, Vatican sources have confirmed.
The new papal document-- for which a publication date has not yet been set-- would give all priests permission to celebrate the Mass of St. Pius V. This permission, a "universal indult," would replace the existing indult that dates back to 1988, when Ecclesia Dei authorized use of the Tridentine rite until more restricted conditions, requiring the permission of the local bishop.
Pope Benedict has long favored moves to accommodate traditionalist Catholics, and to integrate the Tridentine rite into the regular liturgical life of the Church. The motu proprio that he has prepared-- which, according to informed sources, is now in final form-- addresses other liturgical questions as well as the issue of the traditional Mass.
Vatican sources say that the papal document affirms the principle that there is only one liturgical rite for the Latin Church. But this rite has two forms: the "ordinary" liturgy (the Novus Ordo, celebrated in the vernacular language) and the "extraordinary" (the Tridentine rite, in Latin). These two forms have equal rights, the text indicates, and bishops are strongly encouraged to allow free use of both forms.
Pope Benedict is reportedly waiting for the best moment to release the new document, which is currently circulating among Vatican dicasteries. Speculation in Rome is that the indult will be announced at the same time that the Pope releases his apostolic exhortation concluding the Synod on the Eucharist. That document is expected soon, perhaps in November.
There is significant opposition to the indult among Vatican officials, and the papal text has been the subject of serious debate and criticism. But Pope Benedict has made it clear-- notably in his meeting with the College of Cardinals in March-- that he will move forward with efforts to accommodate traditionalists.
In 1988, with his own motu proprio Ecclesia Dei, Pope John Paul II allowed the celebration of the old Mass in parish settings, provided that the local bishop gave his approval. The Ecclesia Dei commission was created to supervise implementation of that policy. Despite the urging of Pope John Paul for a "broad and generous" use of the indult, many bishops have been reluctant to allow the traditional Mass, or have severely restricted its use.
The papal document is likely to take the form of an apostolic letter, with the added status of a motu proprio-- a document that carries the force of canon law. The document has been reviewed by the Congregation for Divine Worship and by Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, the president of the Ecclesia Dei commission, as well as the Pope; it is now in at least its third draft. It seems the document is being sieved with a fine-tooth comb. So much the better! Amado
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as an Eastern Catholic Christian, It does not feel proper to me to say how the Latin Church's liturgy should be other than to be true to it's Apostolic tradition and to be Christ centered in the Eucharist as any liturgy should be. I will say however, that both the Tridentine Mass and Novus Ordo Mass cultures have strengths that could perhaps be combined someday, finding some sort of middle ground. Many see the liturgy the way we want to see it but there are many factors involved in it's shaping, like culture itself. There has always been abuses, because that is how the devil works, he attacks something so precious as the sacraments which gives us spiritual life. All Catholics need to overcome that with devotion and prayer.
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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IMHO, for the good of the Western Church, the Novus Ordo Missae should be scrapped, and replaced by optional vernacular or Latin-language usage of the Old Rite, which is of equal antiquity to the Rite that we use. While the Old Rite developed organically (with a freeze ocurring at the hands of Pope St. Pius V), as did ours, the Novus Ordo is a product of a committee consisting of a "progressivist" hierarch (who was accused by Italian writer Tito Casini of having been a Freemason (Bugnini denied this prior to his death)-allegedly, Casini showed a picture of Abp. Anibale Bugnini in his Masonic garb to Pope Paul VI, who then exiled him to Iran as Papal Nuncio. I do remember Bugnini visiting the American hostages in Iran!) and several Protestant advisors. The late Michael Davies, a British R.C. Traditionalist convert from high-church Anglicanism, once wrote that if you read the text of the Old Rite, and extract everything which is theologically offensive to Protestants, you are left with the Novus Ordo Missae. Enough said!
Dn. Robert
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Fr. Dcn. Robert:
I join you in hoping that this will come to pass!
How nice it would be if the Novus Ordo will be the authorized vernacular version of the TLM instead of the Pauline Mass!
In the interim, however, we have to wait and see how the TLM will fare in this present-day world. For us who grew up serving at TLMs during the early 60s, it is a bit of a nostalgic homecoming!
Amado
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Originally posted by Amadeus:
Fr. Dcn. Robert:
I join you in hoping that this will come to pass!
How nice it would be if the Novus Ordo will be the authorized vernacular version of the TLM instead of the Pauline Mass!
In the interim, however, we have to wait and see how the TLM will fare in this present-day world. For us who grew up serving at TLMs during the early 60s, it is a bit of a nostalgic homecoming!
Amado I also "cut my teeth" serving that Liturgy, in Latin, in the early '60's (Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam, ....Confiteor Deo Omnipotentae, Beatae Mariae semper virgine.....). For me, to compare those days to what we see now in the Latin Rite is kind of like seeing a grandmother in a miniskirt. It just doesn't seem appropriate. Dn. Robert
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"Vatican sources say that the papal document affirms the principle that there is only one liturgical rite for the Latin Church."
A mispeak already, the Latin Church has also the Ambrosian and Mozarabic Rites, and several Uses of the Roman Rite.
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I think it will be nice to have it more widely available. But there were and are still some valid reasons for wanting to have more of the liturgy translated into the vernacular. There should be room in this great big church for a variety of liturgies.
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"The late Michael Davies, a British R.C. Traditionalist convert from high-church Anglicanism, once wrote that if you read the text of the Old Rite, and extract everything which is theologically offensive to Protestants, you are left with the Novus Ordo Missae. Enough said!"
Tell that to the many Anti-Catholic Fundametalists who are to happy to point out nothing has really changed with the Roman Mass, (i.e. it is still considered a sacrifice, Real Presence is still taught, etc.) despite the changes that occurred.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
"Vatican sources say that the papal document affirms the principle that there is only one liturgical rite for the Latin Church."
A mispeak already, the Latin Church has also the Ambrosian and Mozarabic Rites, and several Uses of the Roman Rite. To the best of my knowledge, the Ambrosian Rite is still celebrated in Milan, but I'm told it has been heavily "Romanized". I could be wrong, but I believe that the Mozaribic Rite was supressed in Spain, with promulgation of the Novus Ordo. There was also a Gallican Rite in the West, but I believe that was supressed by "Quo Primum" in the 1500's. Dn. Robert
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
Tell that to the many Anti-Catholic Fundametalists who are to happy to point out nothing has really changed with the Roman Mass, (i.e. it is still considered a sacrifice, Real Presence is still taught, etc.) despite the changes that occurred.
Fr. Deacon Lance Good point. But, the notion of sacrifice is weak in the Novus Ordo. A Protestant could look at the text, and think of it in terms of the Protestant notion of "sacrifice of praise". The notion of Real Presence is generally weaker than that of the old rite, even in the rubrics (less genuflections, communion in the hand, etc.). Lutheran and Anglican communion services are virtually identical to the Novus Ordo in their texts. However, their understanding of what they are doing is a Protestant one. The key point you make above is that the Church teaches the right things about that Liturgy. However, the ambiguities are such that the Protestant minister who preaches on TV from the "Crystal Cathedral" (I forget his name ), when John Paul II visited the U.S., and celebrated a public Mass, made a public comment to the effect that he could accept John Paul's Mass within changing his Protestant theology in the least. Scary. Dn. Robert
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The Ambrosian Rite is still used in the Archdioces of Milan and some of its suffragans. It was always fairly close to the Roman Rite in many respects. Since Vatican II it has been updated in some repects as the Roman has.
The Mozarabic was long limited to a chapel in the Cathedral of Toledo, but it too has been updated and the Spanish bishops are looking into ways of reintergrating it. One monastery currently uses it now I believe.
The Roman Rite suppressed the Gallican Rite but adopted much from it in doing so. Most of the splendor of the Tridentine Roman Use is borrowed from the Gallican. The Roman Rite was very sober and simple as witnessed by many of the Monastic Uses which simply preserve an earlier Use of the Roman Rite before the Gallican additions.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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Are the liturgical usages exclusive to particular religious orders, such as the Dominicans and the Carmelites, considered rites as well?
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Father Deacon Lance, You're correct in pointing out the mistakes in this article. Another mistake: the "ordinary" liturgy (the Novus Ordo, celebrated in the vernacular language) and the "extraordinary" (the Tridentine rite, in Latin). Err, um...no. The Novus Ordo can be celebrated entirely in Latin at the discretion of the priest and is actually the standard for the Novus Ordo, or at least equal with the vernacular. It doesn't have to include any vernacular. Logos Teen
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Here is an article that Fr. Jim Tucker wrote at his blog, www.donjim.blogspot.com/ [ donjim.blogspot.com] It's very good, so I couldn't resist posting it here since most people just ignore links given in these threads. Traditional Mass Rumors -- I've held up on commenting on any of the rumors about an imminent universal indult for the traditional Roman Mass, commonly called the Tridentine Mass, mainly because I thought the rumors were mainly wishful thinking. The latest rumors seem much more solid, though, so a few words might be in order.
Amy Welborn has some very sensible thoughts about why this is important, from a moderate Novus Ordo perspective, and why this isn't merely a "concession to ultra-conservatives."
As all of our readers know, I've been involved with the Old Mass for a long while, and I attribute my love for liturgy in general almost wholly to my early introduction to the Traditional Rite, starting with studying my grandmother's old missal when I was in elementary school. I have long found great richness within it and encourage as many people as possible to become familiar with it, in the hope that they will find that same richness.
One of the points implicit in Amy's post is that the classical Roman Rite is not some strange, fringe interest that can be pushed into a dusty little corner of the liturgical closet in the hopes that it will go away. It's not an extremist thing, even though some of its most vocal advocates are quite extreme themselves. It's not elitist or exclusivist. And although it is quite traditional, the Old Rite is not necessarily "conservative" in some sort of political sense, nor is it an attempt to "turn back the clocks" to 1952. That certain voices in favor of the Old Mass are also bitter, strident, and hateful has next to nothing to do with the Mass: rather, it's an unwarranted but ultimately understandable effect of the attempts to isolate and ostracize and back into a corner those who cling to this venerable old thing of beauty.
What, then, is the Old Rite? It is the normal way in which Western Christians, both good ones and bad, educated and illiterate, have worshiped God for well over a thousand years. It is the historical mainstream. Like a great oak tree, it changes slowly from century to century, from locale to locale, building always on what went before and extending its heavy limbs toward the future. If you want to understand the faith life and spiritual experience of all the generations that went before us in these lands that were evangelized from Rome, it is to the Old Mass and the old Canonical Hours that you must always return. It is the farthest thing from an extremist fringe.
If the celebration of the traditional Roman Mass does indeed become, as is hoped, radically expanded at the Pope's initiative, there are a number of benefits I would expect to see. (1) Even if the New Rite remains the normal form of worship (as most of us expect it will), the priests and people will be put back into contact with the "Mother Rite," so to speak. That may help the New Mass to regain its Roman birthright and the gravity that can sometimes go missing. (2) It will help clarify in people's minds the traditional understanding of what Liturgy is for: Christ the Head leading His Spirit-filled Body, the Church, in the perfect, sacrifical adoration of the Eternal Father, Whose mercy there descends upon us. All of that is present in the New Rite, even though the past few decades have forced the Mass occasionally to serve other purposes. As part of this, familiarity with the classical Roman Rite will make the Eastern Liturgies seem much less foreign. (3) It will finally shatter the silly, Orwellian attempts (which have been steadily crumbling these last ten years) to regard traditional Liturgy and its accoutrements as taboo and not to be mentioned in correct ecclesiastical company. (4) Tied to the prior item, a freer use of the Old Rite will de-politicize it. As it returns to mainstream use, the Old Rite will cease to be the preserves of the fringe (where that has happened).
All of this may well be (as some have suggested) a prelude to a "reform of the reform," revising the New Rite into a form more organically derived from what preceded it, as the Council called for. I've managed to write all of this without having used the word "Latin" even once. For, while the Latin language does have pride of place in the Roman Rite (even in the New Rite, at least according to the law), none of this primarily about Latin versus the vernacular. Even though my own personal preference is for the Old Rite completely in Latin, I would take the Old Rite in good English over the New one in Latin any day. The genius of the Old Rite, to my mind, lies not in the language used so much as in the ceremonial employed, and what that signifies. If we do see a reform of the reform, its greatest effect will be not in replacing English with Latin, but with re-emphasizing and (where they've been cut out) restoring certain ritual forms that have long characterized Roman worship. In particular? I think the chief re-emphasis of any liturgical reform of the reform will be restoring eastward worship, a subject on which both the Pope and his choice for Secretary of the Congregation of Sacraments and Divine Worship have already spoken. I'm quite optimistic about the likelihood of this particular change within the next few decades.
Whatever the near-term future holds for the Old Rite, I think it's important for traditional Catholics to be gracious -- not resorting to spiteful comments about the New Mass (even when those comments seem justified), not using the Old Mass as a yardstick of someone's orthodoxy or sanctity, and not trying to make it a stand-offish enclave of like-minded right-wingers. Catholics who aren't liturgical traditionalists have some challenges, too. They ought to show interest in this rich patrimony of all Latin Rite Catholics and try to educate themselves about it and participate in it on occasion. They should set aside the negative caricatures that they have been fed and try to keep their minds open. And they need to hold back from the temptation to judge the Old Rite by rules that pertain properly to the New. And both "sides" need to avoid any tendencies to see the two Rites in hostile competition with each other, as though the flourishing of one must harm the well-being of the other. Instead, together let's take full advantage of what may well be a great spiritual opportunity. Logos Teen
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