www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Reservation of the Precious Blood?

The Orthodox at the Divine Liturgy give Holy Communion under both kinds by intinction. But as they reserve the Bread for communion for the sick I assume it is given without the Precious Blood or is the Bread to be reserved first dipped in the Precious Blood. The Precious Blood is not reserved is it? Don't the Orthodox insist that communion must be given under both kinds tho'. How does this work for commmunion for the sick taken from the tabernacle? The Orthodox criticize we Romans for having communion under only one kind.

First, the Orthodox don't generally receive by "intinction" (ie, dipping) -- the Melkite Catholics receive that way. Orthodox combine the consecrated host and the consecreated wine in one chalice and receive on a spoon -- that's not intinction.

The consecrated wine is not reserved. Preconsecrated host particles are simply mingled with altar wine, an act which sanctifies the wine, and given to communicants on a small spoon. This mirrors the practice during the Lenten Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified, whereby the presanctified, reserved, host is mingled with altar wine in the chalice, thereby sanctifying the altar wine. This is the reason why the Melkites, who practice "intinction" (ie, dipping) on Sundays, nevertheless receive on a spoon for the presanctified or communion of the sick.

Brendan

While there is no telling what 250 million Orthodox do, the Orthodox Church does not criticized the Romans for this distinct practice (whohc the Roman Church, under the spirit of liturgical reform and despite the foot dragging by the right, is moving away from).

K.

I thought one of the many "errors" the Orthodox criticized the Romans for was communion under one kind. Another was the use of levened bread.

Alexius,

I'm certain that if you look hard enough, you'll find someone somewhere in the realm of Orthodoxy criticizing Roman Catholicism for any number of liturgical practices, and again, if you look hard enough, some Roman Catholic returning the favor.

Doesn't make either one "official" policy, nor a particularly attractive activity for theoretically Christian people to be engaged in.

Cheers,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

These are both ruses. Yes, there were disagreements about ritual practices (receiving under one kind being one of these, although it appears that the trend in the Latin Church is now running the other way), but almost noone sees these as an obstacle to ecumenical relations at this point. Remember, the Latins at one time critiqued the Byzantines for using unleavened bread (cf. Cardinal Humbert's infamous bill of excommunication issued to Patriarch Michael -- makes for rather humorous reading, if it wasn't such an unfortunate episode).

Brendan

I am a Roman Catholic. However because of my interest in the Imperial Russian Martyrs my study of Orthodoxy has been principally through ROCOR. And they may be a bit biased against Rome.

When consecrated Bread is reserved, it is the standard practice to brush the spoon, having been dipped in the consecrated Wine, over the bread. It should not be too 'wet' lest mold form. The bread is then allowed to dry before placing it in the 'tabernacle'.

Placing the dried, but intincted Bread, into ordinary wine allows the Sacrament to be given to the faithful in the 'normal' form without trying to administer the Sacrament as a small dried cube of bread, somewhat like a crouton.

We Byzantines are being very and eminently practical. Reception of both bread and wine transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ. But submerged in ordinary altar wine to allow the sacrament to be consumed in an acceptable way.

What's the problem?

Blessings!

Alexius,
A tad bit i'd say!
Stephanos

AlexiusComnenus,
Here is the forum I argued on the same issue you brought up https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/Forum4/HTML/000079.html

I figure why repeat what I have already stated and continue to believe.

Dear Friends,

Just my two cents' worth.

The East has a different understanding of "symbol" which impacts on its understanding of the Eucharist.

A symbol in the East is not only something that points to another reality. In order to do that, the symbol must itself participate in that reality.

Therefore, is the Eucharist the actual Body and Blood of Christ or is it only a Symbol of it - the great question at the time of the Reformation in the West.

For the East, it is BOTH the reality of the Body and Blood of Christ and its Symbol.

Therefore, the Bread is leavened Bread or "Bread that has risen" in honour of the Resurrection of Christ. The Wine is of a red colour since it is symbolic of the Blood of Christ.

The Bread and Wine separated is symbolic of the Death of Christ on the Cross. Brought together and mixed, it is symbolic of Christ's Resurrection.

It is because the Symbol partakes in the Reality of the Eucharist that the Symbolic aspect is precisely so important in the proper celebration of the Eucharist in the East.

Alex

<< Preconsecrated host particles are simply mingled with altar wine, an act which sanctifies the wine, and given to communicants on a small spoon. >>

This is not quite accurate.

The usual practice is that once a year on Holy Thursday at the Vesperal Divine Liturgy, an extra lamb is consecrated. It is cut into pieces, and these Pieces are dyed with the Precious Blood with the Spoon. This is dried and placed in the Artophorion, similar to how the Presanctified Gifts are prepared during Great Lent. Of course, the Holy Mysteries can be renewed as necessary.

What I generally do is to cut the Lamb to be reserved into many pieces, slicing almost down to the crust where is the seal--but not quite. This I hold over the Chalice and pour the Precious Blood all over it, and place it in a special pyx. (Indeed, I've heard of some places where the dyed Lamb would be placed on a special pyrex dish and carried to an oven to be dried there! Of course, the Priest waits beside it in the meantime in Epitracheilion.)

Then, when needed for a sick call, I break one of the pieces off, and carry the Pearl with vials of wine and water in my sick-call kit. (Some priests may use water alone.) And thus Communion is indeed given under both kinds.