www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Coptic Horologion anyone?

Dear Friends,

I just wanted to share with you this site for the Coptic Daily Office: www.agpeya.org [agpeya.org]

It is, in my humble view, the best on-line translation of the Coptic Hours for those who might like to try them.

They resemble the Byzantine Hours closely, but have no variable portions. Each Hour has a "cursus" of twelve psalms, with more for the First Hour and the Midnight Hour.

Compline is called the Prayer of the 12th hour or six o'clock since Alexandrian Christians retire early so they can get up at midnight to say the Midnight Hour.

The Midnight Hour is divided into three portions reflecting the three times Christ prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane.

It is a good Horologion for those who, like me, sometimes find getting the propers of the Byzantine Office together challenging . . .

It is inspiring as well.

Alex

...great find, nice link.

Thank you.

Bless me a sinner, Venerable Father in Carmel!

You are more than welcome.

As you know, it was by special revelation that the Fathers of the Thebaid learned to "do the Psalter" in 12-psalm intervals or kathismata.

The Byzantine Church applied this rule to the saying of the Jesus Prayer - 100 prayers for each day and night hour.

The Greek Fathers, as Fr. Taft relates, also divided the Psalter into twelve twelve-psalm groupings, with three more added to the first grouping (representing Orthros/Matins) and another three added to the last (for Vespers).

Starting at 6:00 am, each hour would begin with the chanting of one such Psalmic grouping until 6:00 pm.

Those who could would continue into the night . . .

Many Coptic and Ethiopian Monks do the seven-fold Office and pray the 12 hourly Psalms as well.

One can get to know the Psalter very well this way!

Reverencing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

It is God who blesses you!

I knew the division of the psalter, and appointing it to the hours was very old, but I do not know the story of this revelation.

Thank you.

Is the story recounted in Fr. Taft's work?

Dear Father, after kissing your right hand,

I have not been able to find an account of the revelation online, but I do have a good account in the introduction to my Horologion, or "Agpeya" as it is called in Coptic.

Please forgive any typos:

The Agpeya or the seven canonical prayers started as early as the Apostolic age during the earliest days of Christianity. The beivers received this spirtual practice from teh head of the Alexandrine Church: St. Mark the Apostle, who was also the first Patriarch of Egypt.

This was done according to what St. Luke, the apostle, wrote in the Book of Acts: "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meals with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:46-47)

Nevertheless, there was at the beginning, some disagreement on the limits of adoration and the number of Psalms that should be recited. Then one day, while the faithful assembled to pray the Psalms, an angel appeared in their midst, and started praising the Lord and hymning Psalms. The angel recited eleven Psalms with a very nice tune, then added certain individual prayers. Finally, the angel ended his worship by reciting an additional Psalm. Therefore, the total number of Psalms was determinted to be twelve.

The angel disappeared after he put an end to the dispute, and the holy fathers concluded that the matter was settled with divine proclamation. Consequently, the Agpeya became an ecumenical law to be observed by all teh believers.

It was mentioned by John Cassian that the system of prayers in the Church of Alexandria wasdevised befrore the beginning of monasticism. He said, "These arrangements of prayers were observed by all the servants of God in Egypt."

When the clergy charged Saint Basil in Caesarea Philippi becaues of the Night-Watch system he proposed, he replied that this system was being observed in Egypt. Thus, it is not true, what some of scholars claim, that prayin the Agpeya in Egypt was a monastic practice.

Since the beginning of the Apostolic Church, the Copts served God with newness of Spirit, worshipping the Lord with such a spiritual stature, sometimes higher than the monks themselves. According to divine proof, Saint Anthony visited twice the outside world to look for the laity who surpassed him in holiness. Also, Sain Macarius, guided by the Spirit, went to visit the two women who exceeded him in sanctity and in their love for Christ.

Saint John Chrysostom had some nice comments about the fruits of prayer. He wrote: "He who visits the Egyptian desert will find that it has been transformed into 'Paradise'. Tens of thousands of angellic choirs live like 'humans', accompanied by masses of 'martyrs' (who are alive), and coexisting with flocks of virgins. The power of the devil has been crushed, and the Kingdom of Christ shines with abundant glory.

The land which once belonged to the wise men, the poets, and the magicians is now proud, only, with the group of fishermen and with that tent maker (Paul), taking refuge always in the cross. For truly, in every place in the land of Egypt, there are sheepfolds for Christ, saintly flocks, holy virtues and heavenly powers. These spiritual movements are found not only among men but also among women, for the Wicked One wages his war against men and women alike.

Thus, the wilderness of Egypt, with its monastic cells scattered all over, has surpassed in its beauty the sky dotted by so many twinkling stars."


Begging your prayerse.

Dear 'a copt',

Thank you so much for troubling to give the account of this wonderful vision.

with thanks, and the promise of my poor prayers,

Elias

Our dear Coptic Brother,

Doxa Patri ke Eioa ke Agio Pneumati ke nin ke a ee
ke ees toos e onas toan e oa noan ameen!

I have been using the Agpeya for some time. I know that the Psalms in the Agpeya are fixed.

Is not the entire book of Psalms recited somehow weekly by the Coptic Church?

In the Byzantine tradition, the monastic recital of the Psalms one after the other is included as part of the First Hour or Orthros.

Fr. Robert Taft, a great liturgist, wrote in his book on the Horologion that sometimes Coptic monks will recite thirty psalms consecutively for each of the middle five hours of the Agpeya.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

Nofri my Orthodox brother,

Thanks for the questions, I have to leave for an exam and then drive to London, so I might not be able to respond for a couple of days, but yes we do have the whole book of Psalms recited each week - more on that when I'm back.

Peklaoc je marefshopi khen tiesmov e-ehanansho ensho nem hanethva enethva eviri empeko-oosh! (But let your people be in blessing thousands of thousands and tehn thousands time ten thousands doing Thy will)

Irini to epnevmati so! (Peace to your spirit)
Peace and grace.
Agape,
Wak-Wak
Amen, maranatha!

My dear Coptic Brother,

Take your time, I will await your next post on this with eagerness and deep gratitude, as I have not been able to find it anywhere else!

I read the Agpeya daily. Please let me know how else I can augment this practice from the Coptic tradition.

Again, welcome to you here and please do not be afraid to pour out the riches of the Holy Coptic Church upon us all!

Alex

Dear Alex,
In the Byzantine tradition, do you read all 150 Psalms on Good Friday? I the first hour, they read all 150 psalms?

I think I answered the other questions in the "Are old posts gone" thread. Thanks so much again for such a warm reception. I'm not sure how much I'll be getting online in general, but I look forward to learning also about your traditions.

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Wak-Wak
Amen, maranatha!

Dear Minas,

Actually, the division of the Byzantine Psalter is like that of the Assyrians - Hulali or Kathismata and three are prayed each day, two for Matins and one for Vespers.

Closer to the Great Fast, three are read for Matins. During the Great Fast, seven or eight are read daily, dispersed through the Daily Hours.

The Greek Fathers also devised a system of praying the Psalter in 12-Psalm units, following your St Pachomios and one was read at the start of each hour of the day, beginning with 6:00 am and ending at 6:00 pm and then this would be repeated throughout the night hours.

We also have knotted woollen prayer ropes of 100 knots on which we say the prayer: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Following the Pachomian tradition, monks say 100 at the start of each hour of the day and night with prostrations.

Welcome back and we hope to learn more about the Holy Coptic Church!

Alex

I really like the 'Verses of the Cymbals' and all of the 'hoos' (canticles). I received mine from Sts. Mary and Antonios Coptic Orthodox Church.

Hi,

I have always found this Coptic site with a lot of useful info.

http://www.theotokos.org/ChurchCalendar/index.htm

Dear Friends,

Monks in Egypt also used to inhabit the pyramids as their hermitages. Pyramids also had their treasures pilfered by thieves.

Therefore, since the Pharaohs, the pyramids were frequented by "Copts and robbers . . ."

Alex

Thanks again - wow, you are clearly REALLY into the Horologian! Wow, so the they say the Jesus prayer 100 times with prostrations? That's AWESOME!

What rite of monasticism do most Byzantine Catholics follow?

As for learning about the Coptic church, what would you guys like to know? I'm not sure if you read my response in the "Coptic Pope" part - but did you get to see Pope Shenouda, Alex?

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Wak-Wak
Amen, maranatha!