www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology What would the 'ideal' Metropolitan Archbishop be like?

To all:

Please describe the 'ideal' Metropolitan Archbishop.

What should be ...
Personality?
Education?
Communication skills?
Leadership skills?
Relations with the Orthodox?

What decisions should he make in the first 100 days of being the spiritual leader of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church?

Have fun with this one.

Strangely enough, this is the 666th topic on this particular forum.

Joe

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Dear Cantor Joe,

I wanted to take a stab at this one, even though I am a foreigner to the Byzantine-Ruthenian Church ...

And you didn't say ideal for whom? I will assume that it is ideal for Byzantine Catholics.

His personality should be jovial and congenial as well as outgoing, like our Bishop Isidore Borecky.

Loving, laughing and rarely, if ever, sombre or angry.

You may have to import a Melkite .

Ideally, he should have his education, at least in part, in an Orthodox seminary or the Russian College in Rome with at least one degree in Eastern Christian studies and as little as possible in Canon Law.

His communications and leadership skills should put him in touch with the main organizations and interest groups, as well as with all parishes, which he should begin to visit regularly, as the Bishop of Rome does . . .

He should initiate a closer relationship with his priests at synods and communicate freely and frequently with the people by way of media releases and sermons. He should be a good sermonizer, but without a soap-box.

In terms of his relations with the Orthodox, he should promote the Byzantinization of the Church toward the ideal that the Rite of the Church should ultimately be identical with that of the Orthodox. The only way one should be able to tell the difference between the two is when one hears the diptychs sung.

And he should have close relations with the Orthodox, engage in student exchange at seminaries, ecumenical conferences, aid to Orthodox Churches in the "old country" and discussion of liturgical questions and common celebrations.

In the first 100 days, he should establish a regular routine in respect of the above.

Alex

I think the ideal new Metropolitan should concentrate his efforts on preserving the traditions of the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church that have been faithfully kept by the people down through the centuries.

I think that there must be a renewed emphasis on rediscovering Ruthenian ethnicity in the new world and working to preserve the Carpatho-Ruthenian customs and traditions (Such as language, music, and spirituality).

I think that the new Metropolitan shouold be on guard not so much against Latinizations but innovations that are starting to seep in from the Roman rite (Is it true that the Metropolia lets lay people distribute communion)!

THe Eastern Rite Churches I feel, have an important role to play with Rome not just in regards to Eastern spirituality. This role has to do with truly preserving the old traditions shared by both east and west down through the centuries. THe Ruthenian Metropolia must not give in to the liberal fads of alter girls, and women on the alter assisting the priest like the Church was some temple of Aphroditie or something. THe sacred communion should be handled only by the priest and not given to comminers to handle as if the Church had become some democratic institution where everybody was on an equal footing. The Church Slavonic (AS far as possible) should and ought to be preserved a sthe genuine liturgical language of the Byzantine Ruthenian rite just as Latin should be for the Roman rite. THis language, although dead, is still the true treasure of Ruthenian theological expression that lifts the worshipers up from their mundane existance into the mystical realm between Heaven and earth. To do away with it would only be like knocking down a row of dominois to eventually protestantization just like Rome has done and become.

Oh, if I where the Metropolitan, things would be different, believe me. It would be just like those dear old days again. Either way Id straighten things out by any means necessary!

Robert K.

Dear Robert K.,

Yes sir! Whatever you say, Sir!

Alex

Robert K,

Should the Metropolitan say anything about Jesus Christ?

Joe

THis language, although dead, is still the true treasure of Ruthenian theological expression that lifts the worshipers up from their mundane existance into the mystical realm between Heaven and earth.

Liturgy in a language one does not understand hasn't exactly given me this experience. Ritual-wise, yes, but not by theological expressions in that language.

I agree that people can and should learn and thus preserve these languages, but let's face it, not everyone's gonna do it, and not everyone can do it. Some people just aren't good at languages.

I didn't fully appreciate my liturgical tradition until I saw it in English. After that, I was sold. I can't tell you the number of friends I have who prefer going to non-denominational/Evangelical churches rather than Orthodox/Eastern Catholic ones, because they understand what's going on in the former, while in the latter, they understand little to nothing.

I think others can relate to this. I'm not an enemy of the "old" languages, I like them and think they should be preserved. But we should balance that out by also making the Liturgy something people "get something out of". Balance is the word of the day for me...balance.

I think others can relate to this. I'm not an enemy of the "old" languages, I like them and think they should be preserved. But we should balance that out by also making the Liturgy something people "get something out of". Balance is the word of the day for me...balance.[/QB][/QUOTE]


THe real problem , I do think, is with people in general and not with the Church. WE as individuals should not expect to get anything out of going to Church other then the privelage of communing, even if just spiritualy, with the Almighty God. This idea of "Ive gotta understand everything orIll leave and go somewhere else where my needs are better served and I feel comfortable" is a dangerous notion that should be stamped out by those in authority.

The Church is the body of our Blessed Lord upon the Earth and all men are obliged to belong to her. Memebership in her ranks is not suppost to be an option but a necessity. I fear that the notion of packing ones bags and leaving the faith is something that has grown out of the rampant and irresponsible ecumenism that has been propagated by many in recent decades. Everyone seems to believe that every faith is just as relevant as the next one and all that mattters is that you experience some sort of high or nice feeling and not the essential doctrines, dogma, or what have you that are the proofs of our holy and divine religion.

I garuntee that folks will show up to whatever we do if they think that ours is the only way. This is important because we have the only way to salvation and we need to preserve that at any cost from the lures of ost modern relativism. Preserving our traditions passed own from generation to generation is a sure way to garuntee a reverant and pius expression of faith developing amongst our people.

Remeber 50 years ago when the Church actually strove to preserve piety and tradition amongst her flocks? REmeber how many epopel used to go to Church in those sweet old days. A lot more then today.

Why dont they come anymore, why have the sheep left the shepherd? Perhaps it is because the shepherd has lead thm into unfamiliar pastures and they have scattered to seek refuge and have all almost been lost in doing so.

It is essential that we preserve our holy and pius traditions handed down by our forefathers and confirmed by their faith to our succeding genrations so that they will have what we have lost and paid for dearly.

Robert K.

God, I should have been a Jesiut a hundred years ago!

Obviously by now I know we disagree on the issue: but your post brings up a new point for me: Slavonic was novel to the Greeks who evangelized the Slavs. So should the Slavs have kept Greek?

In Christ,

anastasios

Perhaps, but they didnt so we have the wonderful Church Slavonic language to use. But the original liturgy of the Church was only suppost to in Greek , Latin, and Hebrew. These were, if you recall, the language in which hung above our Lords cross and were sanctified by him. An exception was made for Slavonic soly for missionary purposes to a barbarian people.

Robert K.

Personality? Have one.

Education? Enough so that he does not feel threatened by a layperson (or clergy or religious) with more.

Communication skills? Be able to speak honestly and not in platitudes. Be persuasive enough so that what you say is not discarded out of hand before you've even said anything.

Leadership skills? So that your people want to pray with you and not just "for" you.

Relations with the Orthodox? Care enough about reunion that it doesn't matter whether "they" join "us" or "we" join "them." In the meantime, do your best to make things almost as if the above is already accomplished.

What decisions should he make in the first 100 days of being the spiritual leader of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church? Decide whether mediocrity as the new norm is acceptable to the people who remember something better.
Figure out what the "Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church" actually is, and then let the people know whether we actually are members of it or not.

Relations with the Orthodox? Care enough about reunion that it doesn't matter whether "they" join "us" or "we" join "them." In the meantime, do your best to make things almost as if the above is already accomplished.

That does not sound like a very good Catholic position to me. To will fully say that the Byzantine Catholics should abandone the Holy Father and become Orthodox is to incite schism in the Church and is a big sin!

Im suprised at how some people talk when it comes to things like this in the Catholic Church. THis is precisly what I mean by a false and relativist brand of ecumenism that is propagated in many more "open minded" quarters these days.

Do some of you seem to forget that there are Greeks Catholics in Ukraine and eastern Europe laying down their lives even as we speak attempting to defend their Churches from being siezed by their Orthodox brethren. Please do ask them if they ever would consider leaving the Catholic Church and becoming Orthodox and see what they say.

Please do ask all those martyrs of the Ukraine and Eastern Europe who layed down their livs for refusing to become schismatics and remaining faithful to Rome. Ask men like Blessed Nikita Budka lying beaten to death in the snow why it is important to remain in the fold of the Catholic Church and see what he would say.

Ask blessed Metropolitan Joseph who spend years in exile in the cold and ice of Sibera why it is important to remain a Catholic and see what he would say? Ask those Ukrainians who prayed for decades in secret in the woods and cemeteries, but always quitly least someone hear them, why being a Catholic was important to them and why they refused to become Orthodox even though its the "same thing" as Eastern Catholic. Most importantly, ask the 5 million Ukrainian Catholics who came out of the catacombs and revived a Church to which the world thought dead why it is important to remain a Catholic in communion with the see of Rome and see what they say?!!

Is the Orthodox Church the same thing as the Catholic Church? No it is not as the old cathecisms used to say. For although the services of the two are similar, the Orthodox lack one thing the Greek rite does not, that is the CATHOLIC FAITH!!!!

Many people today just try to white wash over the issues at stake between Catholics and Orthodox and promote reunion, at all and any cost. This is a wrong and false kind of ecumenism that has been specifically condemned by Rome and Pope John Paul 2. Contrary to popular belief, it is still necessary to belong to the Catholic Church, even if you belong to a rite that is often treated as inferior by many. Even if your rite is exposed to Latinizations, even if they enforce celibacy, even if whatever, it is still necessary to remain Catolic at all cost because if you wilfully leave the Catholic Church after knowing it to be true then you will go to Hell when you die! This may be an uncomfortable thought and I certainly dont mean to cause offense to anyone but the truth must be made manifest towards all in the light of the contemporary ecumenistic stuff one hears coming from every side.

If you are a Greek Catholic then love the faith you have and cherish its treasures and traditions but also cherish the fact that despite everything, you are Catholics united to the see of Peter.

If you are Orthodox then love the Orthodox faith of your ancstors as your own and genuine.

But please hold fast to the faith that you profess!

Robert K.

Forgive me all for my some what harsh words that have been directed against some people on this forum above. I admit that I was rather harsh to condemn someon eas a bad Catholic when I do not even know them or perhasp have misread what they have written.

It is just that I am a firm believer that if you belong something by your own free will, then you should try the best you can t suport them. I have read about all the poor Greek Catholic martyrs who were killed mainly because they refused to become Orthodox and this fills me with, at least a sense of compassion for their sufferings. It also makes me wonder why people who are Eastern rite Catholics would be so critical of the very thing (Union with Rome) that so many of their fellow people have openly died for.

I am an Orthodox Christian it is true. But still I hav an incredibly hard time understanding such a mentality held by many Byzantine Catholics which apparently advocats, if not schism, then at last hostility towards the Vatican. This has made me try to emphasize the traditional Catholic view on maintaining comunion with Rome and the fact that many Byzantines already beatified by the Pope did except this view over the idea that the Orthodox were the same entirly as they. So why, in my Orthodox mind, would not any Byzantine Catholic be proud of their Catholic faith and union and at least make some attempt to deffend it against critics.

But instead I see many people discouraged and in dismay with being Catholics and who want to, in many cases, pull the Eastern Church away from Rome and towards the Orthodox. In my mind, I wonder if they know or understand that, facts being facts, numerous of their brothers in faith went freely to death rather then give up that which they seem to feel as constrained and oppressive. I guess I just see the world more black and white then gray in many cases.

Either way I am sorry if my words sounded too harsh and hopefully pray for forgivness from those I have offended.

Robert K.

Dear Robert,

Since you are Orthodox and not Catholic, you obviously don't love the Pope enough. I say this in all charity. Please repent of your schism and come home to Rome.

How's that? :rolleyes:

What kind of Metropolitan-Archbishop does the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy need?
Well, look at the three major problems facing the Archeparchy at the present time.

1.) Seminary/ lack of vocations/ future married priesthood? If this problem isn't resolved, don't think the Archeparchy will survive with the limited use of Bi-ritual Roman Catholic priests. By restoring the married clergy, we would be truely a "suris juris" Particular Eastern Church and not a spineless puppet that won't rock the Papal boat.

2.) Education of youth. If the Archeparchy does not start educating "what little youth" that are left in Archeparchial parishes, their won't be any churches left, let alone any need for an Archeparchy or Metropolitan-Archbishop. Failure to take this matter serious would be a mistake.

3.) Liturgical tradition and Cantorial education. Again, you can not exist as a Particular Church and not defend your Partcular Church's liturgical tradition or pass off "more revisions and innovations" as moderizations or delatinizations and continue to refuse to offer PROPER LITURGICAL CANTOR TRAINING! If the next Metropolitan does accomplish this then you might as well start singing "vicnaja pamjat"(if anyone left in the Archeparchy still remembers how to sing it) in regards to continuing the Carpathian Plain Chant tradition, and I fear that there are already too many laity and Archeparchial clergy who can't wait to dump our venerable Plain Chant tradition!

If the next Metropolitan-Archbishop isn't capable or willing to accomlish these tasks or take these matters seriously, I'm convinced the Archeparchy and entire Metropolia will experience great contractions and many parishes will begin closing. We better wake up and take these issuses seriously or in 10-15 years there won't be many Byzantine Catholic Churches left to worry about!

Chritos Voskrese! Voistinnu Voskrese (am I still allowed to use this greeting since it's been two weeks since Pascha?)

Ung-Certez