www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Ruthenian? Melkite?? Byzantine???

Hello, friends!

There is a site called "The Unofficial Directory of Eastern Catholic Churches in California" (Here is the link but I don't think I'm doing this correctly):
http://www.crosslink.net/~hrycak/ch_indx/us-ca.html

The Church we've been worshiping at is listed as "Byzantine - Ruthenian/Van Nuys"-- but what does all of that mean? The only part I can figure out is the "Van Nuys," which I'm guessing means that we are in the Van Nuys "Eparchy"? Correct??

Another Church near us is listed as "Byzantine - Melkite/Newton". Is there an Eparchy of Newton??? What do the other terms in each of these listings mean?

This is SO confusing to me!!! Any light you can shed is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

I'm replying to my own post because I forgot one: there is ANOTHER Church near us listed as "Chaldean/Southfield"... AAAUGH!!! (Help!)

Donna,
There are many Churches which make up the Catholic Church. The Latin Church being the largest.
I would suggest you read the little booklet entitled a"The One Church and the Communion of Churches" for starters. Can be ordered at The Eastern Catholic Pastoral Association of Southern California, 1546 E. La Palma Ave, Anaheim CA 92805

If you are glutton for punishment then tackle "The Eastern Christian Churches (A Brief Survey by Ronald Roberston, CSP

Cheers,
Stephanos I

Hi Donna, glory to Jesus Christ!

Yes, you are in the Eparchy (the Eastern equivalent of a diocese) of Van Nuys-- I am in the Eparchy of Passaic, which covers the East Coast.

Within a "rite", there are particular "churches"-- for example, most Catholics are in the Latin Rite, and within the Latin Rite, the Roman church.

Within the Byzantine rite, there are also particular churches-- you, like me, attend a Ruthenian church of the Byzantine rite. There are other "churches" in the Byzantine rite, though, like the Ukrainian.

Hope this helps!

Karen

Donna,


The Catholic Church is a communion of many different churches -- Roman, Ruthenian, Melkite, Chaldean, Syro-Malabar, etc.

With the different churches, there are different liturgical traditions which are used. The Latin tradition is the most well known, being used by the Roman Catholics (but also, in extension, Ambrosian and other sub-rites of the Latin tradition).

The Byzantine tradition is probably the second most important and influential tradition. It is the tradition which "Byzantine Catholics" are a part of. However, when the term "Byzantine Catholic" is used, in the US, it generally is used to refer to the "Ruthenian" tradition/church who uses the Byzantine Rite. There are other Byzantine churches, however -- the Melkite is one. They come from the Middle East, and their liturgical language is not Slavonic nor Greek, but Arabic.

So when you see Melkite, that is another one of the churches in the common communion of churches of the Catholic faith. They are indeed another eparchy than Van Nuys. They are a different hierarchy. They have nuances in their tradition different from the Ruthenians. However, we do share the "Byzantine" tradition -- like the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom.

Now the books recommended -- are a good place to start. They will give more detail of the histories of the different churches. But I hope this has been of more help, too.

Donna,
Glory to Jesus Christ!

The Universal Catholic Church is comprised of individual sui iuris (self-governing) Churches.
There is one Western Church, the Latin Church, which would be the spiritual home to those identified as Roman Catholics.

In addition there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches, fully in union with the Latin Church.

A Catholic may participate in Mass (Divine Liturgy in Eastern Churches) at any Catholic parish (satisfying the requirement for liturgical attendance), and may fully participate in Holy Communion when in attendance.

The Latin Church expresses its liturgical practices in the Roman Rite. This would include the format of the Mass, the prayers used by the priest and people, the critical elements of the Mass, and the correct rubrics (ways of �doing it�). Some portions of the Mass are fixed and some portions vary from week to week, i.e., which Gospel and Epistle readings. Variation is allowed for the language of the people in that country.

So too with Eastern Catholic Churches.

Five Rites, or ways of expression, have developed from the inception of the Eastern Catholic Churches through their patrimony in various areas of the world. This would include Byzantine, Alexandrian, Antiochene, Armenian and Chaldean.

Within a rite, particular Churches develop. These separate (sui iuris) Churches would use a common liturgical expression, i.e., Byzantine. But since each Church has its own hierarchy and is self governing, separate Churches have resulted, who maintain full communion with the Latin Church and its head, the Pope of Rome.
Specifically, the Byzantine rite Catholic Churches include the Albanian, Belarussian, Bulgarian, Czech, Croatian, Greek, Hungarian, Italo-Albanian, Melkite, Romanian, Russian, Ruthenian, Slovak and Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Churches. For example, the proper name of the Ruthenian would be the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church.

The head of each Church would be a bishop. He may also be an archbishop, a patriarch, or in the case of the Latin Church, the Pope. Remember, the bishop is the highest ordained office of deacon, priest and bishop.

Most of these Churches have at least one bishop. Some are too small in population for a bishop, and are administered by the Holy See.

The material you are questioning goes down one level. For each Church (headed by a bishop), there are one or more eparchies (diocese) established. The article you cite lists the Church and the corresponding eparchy.
In the United States, 9 of the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches are represented by at least one bishop and at least one eparchy. This would include Ruthenians (Pittsburgh, Passaic, Parma OH, Van Nuys CA), Ukrainians (Philadelphia, Stamford, Chicago, Parma), Melkite (Newton MA), Romanian (Canton OH), Maronite (Brooklyn, St Louis), Armenian (New York), Chaldean (Detroit, San Diego), Syrian (Newark) and Syro-Malabar (Chicago).

Other smaller Eastern Catholic Churches have parishes in the United States, but are not sufficiently great in population to have a bishop here.

This barely covers the surface of the question you asked. Please attend Divine Liturgy with us, ask questions, research publications and the web, and most of all, pray.

Hope this helps,
Deacon El

Deacon El,
Just to clarify,"satisfying the requirement" is imposed ipon Latin Catholics, ie, Latin Catholics may fulfill their obligation by attending a "Mass of any Catholite rite", there is no corresponding obligation upon Eastern Catholics to attend a Mass of the Roman Rite. The "obligation" upon Catholics is to pray. For Eastern Catholics this may be "fulfilled" by worshiping at Vespers, Matins or the Divine Liturgy. Having said this, I am not saying Eastern Catholics cannot or should not pray with the Roman brothers, all I am saying is that Eastern Catholics are not "obligated" to do so.

I support all that said before.
I would put it this way:

1. There is One Catholic Communion.

2. it is made up of some 22 Catholic Autonomous Churches - i.e. Catholic Churches that are internally self-governing.

E.g. the Latin Church [commonly referred to as the RC Church], the Melkite, the Ruthenian, the Ukrainian, the Chaldean (Assyrians), the Malabar (India), the Malankar (also India), the Ethiopian, the Coptic, the Armenian, the Romanian, etc.

3. Each autonomous catholic church naturally uses a "rite" - a style or way of worship etc.

Presently there are some 6 or 7 (according to liturgy scholars) rites being used within the Catholic Communion.

Each one of the Autonomous Catholic Churches uses 1 of these rites.

E.g. the Latin Church uses the latin rite.

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church uses the Byzantine rite.

The Melkite Church uses the Byzantine rite.

The Ruthenian Church uses the Byzantine rite.

(a majority of the 22 Catholic Churches use the Byzantine rite)

The Maronite Church uses the West Syrian Rite.

etc. etc.

So far so good.

Then the problem comes I think with the names of the various churches. And like many a minority group, the "politically correct" version of our name changes. Some churches name themselves after their Churches and some after their rites and some both. E.g. the Ukrainian Church in the US is called the "Ukrainian Catholic Church" (there is no "ukrainian rite" per se) - the official name of the Church in Ukraine more accurate, "the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church" - it identifies both the Church (Ukrainian) and the rite (Greek [i.e. Byzantine]).

E.g. Both the Ukrainians and the Carpatho-Rusyns, indeed all eastern slavs from a certain region all called themselves "Rusyns" ("Ruthenian" in Latin) - i.e. people from Rus'.

When they came to North American, the West Europeans called them "Russians" - so the Ukrainians' solution was to call themselves "Ukrainians". Hence "Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church".

The Carpatho-Rusyns (Rusyns from the western Carpathian region) also did not want to be identified with Russians. The still identify themselves as "Rusyns" (or Ruthenians). So what to do?

Here I stand to be corrected by the Ruthenian members of the Forum, but the story I heard was that they did not call themselves "Greek Catholics" because people would naturally assume they were Greeks. So they opted for the very good name of "Byzantine" Catholics (the "Byzantine" rite being the rite of the Byzantium, aka Constantinople, aka the Greek rite (hence "Greek Catholic") - i.e. the liturgical tradition that developed from Constantinople (as opposed to Rome or Antioch or Alexandria etc.).

Technically all Catholics who employ the Byzantine rite are Byzantine (or Greek) Catholics. Hence "Ukrainian Greek Catholic" or "Rumanian Greek Catholic" or "Melkite Greek Catholic" or even "Greek Greek Catholics" (the Byzantine Catholics in Greece!) etc.

Hope this helps.

Herb

Dear Donna,

What Parish do you attend, im also in the Eparchy of Van Nuys (Ruthenian) I go to St. Nicholas.

In Christ+
Daniel

Just a minor clarification on the Western Rites and Churches, which are immediately subject to the Pope, as Supreme Pontiff and Patriarch of the West.

Although it could be called "Latin Rite," the West, or the Church of Rome, uses the "Roman Rite." Of course, the Roman Rite is the predominant Rite in the West but there are other Rites still extant today:

(1) Roman:

The overwhelming majority of Latin Catholics and of Catholics in general. The current Roman Rite is that of the 1969 Missale Romanum (or Novus Ordo), now on its third edition (issued in 2001), with the following special dispensations:

- Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Mass) - Some institutes within the Roman Rite, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, have the faculty to celebrate the sacramental rites according to the forms in use prior to the Second Vatican Council. This faculty can also be obtained by individual priests from their bishop or from the Pontifical Council Ecclesia Dei.

- Anglican Use - Since the 1980s the Holy See has granted some former Anglican and Episcopal clergy converting with their parishes the faculty of celebrating the sacramental rites according to Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected.

(2) Mozarabic:

The Rite of the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal) known from at least the 6th century, but probably with roots to the original evangelization. Beginning in the 11th century it was generally replaced by the Roman Rite, although it has remained the Rite of the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Toledo, Spain, and six parishes which sought permission to adhere to it. Its celebration today is generally semi-private.

(3) Ambrosian:

The Rite of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy, thought to be of early origin and probably consolidated, but not originated, by St. Ambrose. Pope Paul VI was from this Roman Rite. It continues to be celebrated in Milan, though not by all parishes.

(4)Bragan:

Rite of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal, it derives from the 12th century or earlier. It continues to be of occasional use.

(5) Dominican:

Rite of the Order of Friars Preacher (OP), founded by St. Dominic in 1215.

(6) Carmelite:

Rite of the Order of Carmel, whose modern foundation was by St. Berthold c.1154.

(7) Carthusian:

Rite of the Carthusian Order founded by St. Bruno in 1084.

Hope this clarifies further.

AmdG
(A Roman Rite Latin, aka Roman Catholic!)

"Ruthenian" and "Melkite" are terms which have at least one ironic characteristic in common: neither word has a precise meaning. Incognitus

Hi, Daniel! My bulletin says "Byzantine Catholic Cathedral of Saint Mary," but most folks just call it "St. Mary's Cathedral". It's down in Sherman Oaks (about 1 hr. drive from us-- but so is everything-- we live in the boonies!)

Wow!-- you guys are AMAZING! Thanks to all you Byzantine Brainiacs who answered my questions! You guys rock!!! Mwaaaaah!

Donna,

You write: And many long answers have been given. Let me give you a short answer. The term "Byzantine" refers to any of the 14 Churches that use the Liturgy that comes from Constantinople (chiefly that of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil). Among these are the Ruthenian and the Melkite Churches. The term "Van Nuys" indicates the eparchy/diocese to which that parish belongs (Van Nuys was the eparchial headquarters until the Northridge earthquake when it was moved to Phoenix).

There are three eparchys associated with the Ruthenians, but only one for the Melkites. It was, originally, in Newton, MA but has since been moved to Roslindale although the name remains. There are several Melkite parishes in Southern California including St. Anne in North Hollywood, Holy Cross in Placentia, St. Andrew in El Segundo and St. Phillip in San Bernardino.

BTW, although the term "Byzantine" has been appropriated by the Ruthenian Church in the United States, it really does have a broader meaning.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Oooh, lucky you. I love St. Mary's and can hardly wait to come up for another visit.

As for Ruthenians being sometimes called "Greek Catholics," that does indeed cause confusion. 20 years ago, we were told that a Greek Catholic Church was up the street from us. When we visited, we were surprised to find that the parishioners looked nothing like Greeks.