www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization The Passion

Given the discussion of evangelization, this seemed the most appropriate forum. Recent research on the effects of The Passion:

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=167

Sad and surprsing to me.

Scott

I don't find it particularly sad or surprising.

The movie is a **MOVIE**


It isn't the eighth sacrament of the Church.

I have not seen it yet, but I am given to understand that VERY little time is spent on the Lord's earthly mission or message, and very little on the Resurrection. For someone with a superficial familiarity with Jesus Christ and the Church He founded, I'm not sure how useful the "third installment" of the story is for purposes of evangelization without Part One (Salvation history through thebirth and childhood of Jesus), Part Two (the public ministry of Jesus), and Part Four (from the Resurrection forward).

An illustration of the Lord's Passion is likely to have more of a significant impact on the personal faith - or the understanding of someone who already believes. From what the article said, a surprising percentage of folks who saw it did seem to experience something of the sort.

Some folks came to see the gore.

Especially in America, where faith is seen as a "private matter," I don't see how seeing this movie would cause anybody to increase their tendency to evangelize.

I don't think that's either sad or surprising. Evangelism is the work of the Holy Spirit, speaking from one heart to another. To expect a movie to do that seems a bit of a reach.


Just my $.02 - and I do hope to see it one of these days.


Sharon

As you know Gibson's The Passion of the Christ was a hot topic of conversation among Catholics, evangelicals, and others before and after its release. Like Sharon I still haven't seen it, but, from what I have gathered from some and the raves and reviews--it is a work of art. That being said, it was, after all, only a movie albeit the biggest money maker of all time.

Here is why I didn't go:

--Because I heard it did not tell the entire story. The meaning of the cross culminates in the resurrection.

--I didn't want to see the violence/blood/torture and I heard there was plenty of that, so I decided it better to wait until it came out on DVD and see it on my little screen. One of my friends said she simply bowed her head and closed her eyes and she had to do that for a very long time.

--But, the price Jesus paid for our redemption was great. If The Passion depicts that in a meaningful although graphic manner it is good the movie was made and is bound to have some lasting effects on some more than others.

Mary Jo>pre-ordering the DVD.

I haven't seen the movie, and I don't plan on seeing it. I have been told that it is incredibly gory, so I am not crazy about seeing it for that reason. I have also heard that Gibson based some/much of the movie on the revelations of Anne Catherine Emmerich. Emmerich may have been a fine person, but what she said may not be historically accurate. I don't see how she could add to what is in the gospels. I view this movie as entertainment - crude entertainment to be sure - but not gospel or Church teaching.

My husband and I did see the movie; I liked it, he was less impressed.

The reason I liked it: it had an artistic vision that was grittier than any previous version of the Passion I have ever seen. Yes, it was gory. Yes, it was violent. But crucifixion was violent. And it always looked to clean and quick in the movies made up until now.

I honestly went in expecting see something anti-Semitic in the film and I was afraid of that. Some of my dearest friends are devout followers of orthodox and conservative Judiasm. But I didn't find any anti-Semitism. One of my conservative Jewish friends saw the film and he thought it was a good portrayal of what he, in his own faith life, sees as a profoundly sad tragedy. He said "yes, it was violent - but that was a violent way to die" and "it made me cry - it was profoundly tragic."

Interestingly, my husband did not enjoy the film because he thought it embellished too much - he figured that Gospels didn't need added scenery. He would have been more interested in expanding the flashback scenes, where Jesus teaches. (Interestingly, my Jewish friend had the same opinion - he says that he figures Jesus said a whole lot of things that made sense to all people - and the film would have done well to have been a little longer and include more of flashbacks to His life and teaching.)

I don't think a mere movie is going to get people to go and evangelize. Really, I don't look to movies - even really good ones - to inspire. This movie was timely - and it did make people think about the meaning of Good Friday. Maybe, just maybe, in 2004, we were picturing our suffering Savior more than we were picturing bunnies and baskets of eggs. If the director touched the faithful in that way, I guess he accomplished something impressive.

I heard a guy at my church say that the movie made him cry when the Good Friday readings were read - and he'd never done that. He said he'd picture the beautiful, but "mostly bloodless, Rennaisance art portrayals of the Crucifixion." That's usually what I'd picture, too. Seeing a gritty portrayal brought home how much He suffered.

It also brought home how "light" our burden is - Jesus did the heavy lifting for us all. Being scourged, being crucified, being forced to carry the Cross - it was gory. The relatively few things we are asked to do to walk in imitation of Christ - mostly things that make us feel socially awkward (like speaking up in defense of the weak and helpless in mostly social settings) seems so small.

Evangelize? No. The movie didn't really inspire me that way. But I did think more about my own conversion. And it did make me think about how I fail in the puniest of tasks - painless tasks, really - like avoiding socially uncomfortable conversations with friends who feel differently than me (e.g. are pro-choice). And I guess it made me picture more, in my own mind's eye, what an awful death Jesus endured and how He, pure and without sin, did that for love of us and and to heal our sins.

I think the idea is that Christians could bring unbelieving friends with them and then use the movie as a platform, or starting point, to discuss sprititual issues. I don't think that the movie has to do every part of the evangelization or depict every important event of Jesus's life, just provide the platform of depicting a monumental turning point in world history.

BTW, I am not criticizing anyone, just providing a perspective.

Zadok,

...a very good perspective, too.

Blessings,
Porter

Scott,

Excuse my manners. I am not so very long here myself and sometimes miss who is new and....? Anyway, a most warm welcome to you, Brother in Christ.

Thanks for posting that website on the "Praying the Psalms" thread too. I have put it in my favorites.

In Christ, <><


Mary Jo aka Porter

I have seen the movie. Twice in fact.
Yes it was gory and violent, but as one mentioned, that was what crucifixion wasabout. I think it was an "all or nothing" decision Mel made when he started the film.
I myself have deepened my faith because of it. I was deeply moved.
The scene when Jesus meet his Mother,( he embraces Her and says "Mother, see how I make all things new" and then slowly lifts the cross back up and rests His head on it, in an almost embracing fashion) will stay in my mind forever.
This probably was the most moving 5 seconds in a film I've ever scene. He did it for US, Every single one of us.
I left the theatre thinking to myself, now, what am I going to do ?... How can I be more like Christ ?
Even if it is only one good action I do everyday to my fellow brothers and sisters I think Mel has accomplished what he set out to do.

Brad

Athair ar Neamh, Dia linn

Well whether one like the movie or not, as several people told me, it made he name of Jesus a household word again. So many sadly have forgotten that Jesus even existed!
Stephanos I

Please forgive me while I think out loud:

Many people who pray the Rosary have certain images in their minds as they meditate on the mysteries. Same thing when they do the Stations of the Cross. Various scenes from Jesus movies and artwork, along with what was read in the Bible and other "visions" also come to mind. Pepper that with what one conjurs up in ones own imagination. It's a natural part of meditation.

Mel Gibson just did what most of us cannot do. He made a movie that shows us his meditations on the Passion of our Lord in the outline of the Rosary and Stations. It's a wonderful gift that a Catholic could share with us. I, for one, thank him for it. Blood, gore, and all. Now my meditation is deeper and has more of an impact on me. The feeling has not disappeared even after 5 months.

I understand protestants not getting it but I am so perplexed when Catholics who pray the Rosary and the Stations criticize what Mel did.

I'm not trying to imply anything negative about those who aren't thrilled about 'The Passion'. I'm just saying that I am bewildered.

As for the movie not telling the whole story ... there are plenty of other Jesus films that do. Evangelize with those along with the Bible.

The Passion is best for deepening meditation and becoming a participant in His sufferings.

In Christ, Michelle

Some of us don't really do the Rosary and Stations and consider those primarily Latin Rite devotions. I am not implying that there is anything wrong with them, but they reflect the Latin preoccupation with the death of Jesus. Many Easterners put emphasis on other aspects of Christ, that's all. So perhaps the Latins would get more out of the movie. Since Gibson is Latin, his theology would be more in line with, and more appealing to, traditional Latin views.

Actually, ByzanTN, I have read some EXCELLENT reviews and commentaries from Greek Orthodox clergy and hierarchy about the movie. My own priest, who is a cradle Orthodox, and is also VERY Eastern, very traditionally Orthodox, and very devout, was one of the movie's biggest fans.

He is very touched by our Lord's passion, and is in tears when he processes the huge crucifix every Holy Thursday night. The Passion is crucial, in my humble opinion, to feeling the human side of our Lord and what He went through as a human for our sins and our salvation.

The Resurrection is ofcourse crucial and central to our understanding of God's mercy for us, and through it, we relate to the Divine and to eternal life.

I don't think that East and West disagree on this, although the West emphasizes the Crucifixion more than the East...

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

True, and we don't disagree on this. But I still see it as just a movie, not a work of theology or instruction. What theology that is in it definitely has a Western slant, of course. If you get something out of the movie that's great. I am glad you did. It just doesn't sound like anything I particularly want to watch. I would rather read a good, inspirational book.

Dearest ByzanTN,

I have no problem with those that have or have not seen the movie. Works of art are there for the taking, and it is up to the individual if he would like to take them or not!

I was just responding to the comment about the Latin West perhaps liking the movie more because of their particular theological emphasis on the Crucifixion.

My own opinion, (note that I did not really give it above, I just said what many of my clergy and hierarchy felt about it), is that it was a brilliant piece of film artistry, it had good artistic license, it did not stray theologically, (atleast for those who have already read the Bible and know it well), but it was extremely graphic....I was prepared for those scenes from our discussions at the time on this forum, and so I just covered my eyes and borrowed my head into my husband for all those scenes!

In Christ our Lord,
Alice