www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Altar Girls

I saw something interesting this past weekend. While traveling I stopped for Divine Liturgy at a parish that will remain nameless. I was quite surprised to see an altar girl! No one in the parish seemed to mind or find it the least bit out of the ordinary, so it may have been a longstanding custom there. Neither she nor the the other altar server were vested and she did a good job.

Divine liturgy at an Eastern Catholic parish, or an Orthodox one?

Gaudior, in shock at either

Women are not allowed in the Holy Place of an Eastern Church.

One of our venerable Eastern Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Forum members will confirm this as Eastern Tradition.

Christ is our peace.

Paul

Eastern Catholic

Still horrified at this, as, as was pointed out, it is completely wrong for a female not in orders (a nun) to be in altar, and, even IF in orders, she would need a valid reason to be there, and a blessing for same.

Gaudior, wondering what the world is coming to

The ancient and universal canon prohibits females from serving at the altar. There is no direct prohibition on them being behind the iconostasis, although it would reason that they would also stay out during services and just before and just after services.

The underlying reasons for the canon are no doubt tied to some abuses that occurred in the past. Were the Church to allow females to serve there, no doubt such abuses would be seen again.

In the Eastern Churches with a majority of the parish priests and deacons being married men, this is simply common sense.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew,

Actually, my understanding is as Gaudior stated, that females are not permitted within the Holy Place.

That aside, what does the marital status of the clergy have to do with it? Are you suggesting that the presence of females within the altar (as servers or otherwise) presents a greater temptation (or opportunity for moral lapse) to the clergy than do the females of the congregation in other settings? Or, that they would be less tempting to celibate clergy?

It makes less sense to me given that your reasoning is that they should not be there during, immediately before, or immediately after services. If one is to consider them some sort of risk to the morals of the clergy, it would seem to me that those are the times when there would be the least opportunity for them to present such (i.e., when the temple is occupied by people).

You, my brother, always the voice of reason and common sense, have lost me

Many years,

Neil

Dear Neil,

Please accept my apology for being vague.

Please research the canon. I believe that you will find the letter of it (in Greek) addresses "service" at the altar.

Regarding my other comments, let's start at the recently exposed scandal in the Latin Church wherein a minority of celibate clergy were found to have abused, in far more than half of the cases, altar boys. To my understanding, very few abused both boys and girls, but rather showed proclivity to assault one gender or the other.

Very few, if any, of the abuses occurred at the altar or during services, but this is where these sick men first approached and befriended their prey.

Obviously, the actual abuse occurred "after hours" or on "camping trips" or at "retreats" of one sort or another where the victims were away from familiar surroundings and the predator away from watchful eyes.

Service at the altar (and now I'll speak more specifically to the Byzantine Rite) and the necessary precursory preparation and closure after services allows ample opportunity for this familiarity to happen. The servers must come into the sanctuary and usually remove some piece of outer clothing such as a jacket or sweater, after which, upon receiving a blessing, with a bow of the head and kiss to the hand of the priest, the server may vest. During service, we kiss the priest's hand each time we give or receive the censor, an icon, or other holy objects. After the service, the altar server may again be alone with the celebrant while the celebrant consumes the chalice and the server removes his liturgical robes. At this point, the knave itself may be entirely empty as the parishioners have retired to a social hall.

As a Reader, I myself often assist an altar boy or two to hang a sweater, tie a shoe, or fasten or unfasten the clasp on their liturgical robes. The initial elements of close physical proximity and even skin to skin touch are already in place. Likewise for the priests. But we are and should be intentionally careful, lest the young person misread our offer of assistance and our contact.

Now the assumption that I made in my previous post (and which I believe to be fair) is that the overwhelming majority of married clergy in the Byzantine Rite (both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox) are not secretly practicing homosexual activity. If we were able to review the few cases of adultery and child abuse among them, we would probably find that the great majority of those who cheated, cheated with a female.

Leaving out pedophilia and the issue of altar girls for a moment, we see from the historical record extremely few, if any, true indications that adult female deaconesses ever served at the altar. In any case, the canon was passed to formally exclude it, while not banning the time-honored office of deaconess in any way, shape, or form.

The male & female clergy serving together would need to do the same functions described for the child servers, but with the addition of the kisses on the cheek at greeting and parting, the bowing, kneeling, and prostrations in close proximity as well as the usual whispering back and forth of liturgical directions. This level of physical, verbal, and aural intimacy would not be normally shared by a man or woman with anyone but their parents, siblings, children, or spouse.

Thus introducing females to serve at the altar or spend time in the sanctuary around services opens up a myriad of opportunities for the Tempter to insert his lies into the mix. While perhaps the great majority of tempted married clergy (of course, not all would even be tempted) would endure and have victory over their temptations, some would fall and the resulting scandal would be so damaging to the Gospel and, of course, to the lives of all of those affected.

One could cynically use my logic to argue that the Latin Rite should therefore ban altar boys and require altar girls, but I think that the problem there is related more to the downfall of the lonely vs. those who live in community. So I've been told, the great majority of Latin Rite clergy abusers have been "diocesan" clergy who live on their own as opposed to members of "religious orders" who tend to live in communal settings.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

This is at an Orthodox church:
http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/misc/handmaidens.cfm

The particular law for most Greek Catholic churches only allows males to serve at the altar. In spite of the law and norms it still does occur, obviously, given this thread.

I have viewed the link, and still don't believe what I see......

james, in shock

Well the girls are not in the altar area.
The priest's vestments are interesting too. No high-back, Roman collar, ...
And clean shaven!

I don't believe what I see either: they should be wearing babushkas.

Dave

It is unnecessary and incorrect to equate this type of position with that of altar server.

Please see the altar server page here [stlukeorthodox.com] .

"Handmaidens" are to be found in various parishes and it seems a useful and totally appropriate way to involve young ladies in the life of the parish. Adult women hold the Communion cloth if the need be, why not younger women. The reason for the use of the robes is explained. Note that they are not vestments like the ones altar boys use.

I've seen this done in another OCA parish (not mine). The girls didn't have any robes on but just came down when it was time for Communion and held the cloth underneath the Chalice while Communion was being dispensed. At no time did the go behind the Iconostasis, hold candles, etc.

There have been times when I have gone to Liturgy during the week when I was the only male present. It's nothing for one of the older women to come up and hold the cloth with me. What's the big deal? This in no way indicates they are Altar Girls!

There are times in my own parish where women will read the Hours, and the Epistle on occassion. When the Epistle is read the woman doesn't go behind the Iconostasis for the Blessing. She stands at the bottom of the steps leading to the Royal Doors and the priest comes out to give her a Blessing.

If a woman can hold a baby while its being Communed, why can't she hold the cloth when others are?

OrthoMan

I agree, I don't like the white Robes. And the priests vestments are too latinized. Other than that its no big deal!

OrthoMan

I have researched the link further and find it interesting, I must admit I have not seen handmaidens before, my humble education continues.

james