www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization The most fantastic Pascha of my life

John,

I'm so glad you posted. Did you know that the priestly retreat for the Eparchy of Parma is next week? Father Loya is taking a copy of my post with him. Perhaps you and Michael (Coalesco) could send your comments to him.

Your description is wonderfully apt. Wasn't it great how Father spoke to the children and then how those boys started to hang out at the icon and Jack (the usher) helped them understand what they were touching? Reminded me of the time Jesus welcomed the children.

Christ is Risen!!

BTW Anthony Dragani, you must get out here some day. The visit will boost your spirits as we work for evangelization from our Churches.

I've started a quiet campaign to remove pews from my parish, and had some success.

Taking into consideration parish history and the current clergy, a wholesale removal of pews was/is untinkable. Attendance at Sunday Liturgy is growing by leaps and bounds (and not just because pascha is approaching!). Quite often it is SRO within 10 minutes of the Liturgy beginning.

My argument was this:

• There's not enough room in the church
• Pews take up too much room
• Most people are used to standing (the vast majority of our parishioners are recent immigrants. God bless them, every one!)

Two rows of pews have now been removed in time for pascha. Only a dozen or so left to go! The goal is for half the pews to be removed for next Pascha. The dream is that all of them will be gone! (Except for those along the wall for the infirm/elderly, of course.)

Andrij

Dan,

I would love to visit your parish in the near future. Maybe I can arrange something in the next year or so...

Anthony

To Joe:

Rev. Dr. Andriy Chirovsky is a Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic priest; he is the director of the Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky Institute of Eastern Christian Studies at Saint Paul University, Ottawa.

To Alex:

And St. Elias Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church in Brapmton, Ontario, is a wonderful example of a vibrant, no-pews parish. Not only no pews, but men stand on the right side and women on the left.

I think our externals are an important part of who we are. We sing, "let my prayer rise like insense before You, and the lifting up of my hands like an evening sacrifice." And we stand like statues, with our hands at our sides or holding the service book. So, I raise my hands when we sing "the lifting up of my hands!" Otherwise, why sing it?

Lory

Isn't that just a quaint ethnic custom that has no relevance to our modern American way of life & should be done away with?

Dear Lemko,

But only if one no longer finds one's wife all that attractive . . .

Alex

Dear Friends:

Having the women to the left and the men to the right may seem quaint and old fashioned but the back and forth singing between the two is just magnificent.

There are no formal ordinances working here at St. Elias, the people have just gotten used to standing this way.

Children of course walk between both parents during services.

I might care to remind some of our posters that in former days, and under a different jurisdiction, men tended to stand in the back so that they could sneak out for a smoke during halftime.

Please be assured that for the sake of the singing alone its well worth being quaint and old fashioned.

defreitas

Lory,

"I raise my hands when we sing "the lifting up of my hands!" Otherwise, why sing it?"

Father Loya told me to go ahead and great others with a holy kiss during the greeting (which we still zip right over) and raise my hands during the Lord's prayer. The liturgy is the work of the people and that is a heck of a lot more than mumbling the songs and standing like statues when we are saying that we are doing more than that.

Dan Lauffer

Dan,

WOW! All this happening without a liturgy commission!

I like.

There is nothing more strange than teaching dogmas not celebrated (as in some parishes/churches) and not celebrating that which is proclaimed.

Will the table of oblations be moved to a separate building outside to make a Great Entrance more authentic too rather than a cuckoo clock ritual?

Just a suggestion.

Joe

Joe,

"Will the table of oblations be moved to a separate building outside to make a Great Entrance more authentic too rather than a cuckoo clock ritual?"

Nothing would surprise me. Come Holy Spirit!

Dan Lauffer

Wow, what a novel idea, restoring the diakonikon...

Dan,

Christ is Risen!

I shared my post with Fr. Loya yesterday. He was humble and grateful -- as always. Thanks for your suggestion.

I also found the veneration of the Resurrection Icon, the cross and the Apostolos moving. Wasn't the blessing of the Pascha baskets great? The Byzanteens produced ours. It was beautiful and delicious.

Last night at Divine Liturgy, I could still feel the radiant joy of Pascha. The Holy Doors and Deacon Doors in the icon screen were still wide open. During the Little Entrance and Great Entrance Fr. Loya, Deacon Tim and the acolyte processed in our midst. Without the pews it feels like we're really worshipping God and not just mere spectators.

I wonder about the prosphora used in the Eucharist. Is it baked by parishioners in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church? Why or why not?

John

Anthony,

Christ is Risen!

Thanks for your ministry on EWTN.com. You played a key role in bringing our family to Annunciation BCC. I followed the forum for some time and finally followed the path to the Eastern Rites.

Please do come worship with us at Annunciation soon!

I've been meaning to ask you how can I get a hold of the reading list from the seminary. I'd like to fill in some gaps to better understand and appreciate the Byzantine Way.

John

Diak,

Actually, the skeuphylakion. Same difference.

This might make restoring the lay rite of offerings more easier than asking parishioners to offer their gifts at the 'deacon door' in the altar.

I can never understand an 'entrance' that ends in the same room that it begins. Architectural changes, practicality, and the downfall of the diaconate led to presbyters assuming the deacons' role at the Great Entrance. Not only do presbyters assume episcopal roles when a bishop is absent, but deacon roles too at the Great Entrance, and the lay people's role at the offerings before liturgy.

Many non-Byzantines ask why we don't have a male and female couple bring up the gifts to the altar as they do in the Latin rite? We can if they only did it when Byzantines do it, namely at the skeuphlakion or diakonion BEFORE liturgy. But unlike the representational (one man, one woman) form of bringing up the gifts as in the Latin rite, many men and women can bring their gifts and deposit them in a separate room.

This would do to liturgical action what the restoration of our plainchant did to liturgical singing. The intimacy between text and action will make liturgy more meaningful.

There is nothing more rude than when parishes try to extend their Great Entrances around the temple and up the main aisle (assuming there are those darn pews) and a visiting priest ignores the parish tradition and makes the conventional cuckoo clock entrance, thus sending the servers around the temple in procession for no reason. Restoring the skeuphylakion will diminish or extinguish the gulf between those preists who wish to make liturgical action/rite more meaningful and those priests who do not.

This suggestion is not for novelty or antiquity's sake. It is the idea that we can take back the liturgy in a more meaningful form without innovation and elimination. It is basically ironing out inconsistencies that have developed over the centuries - like when priests assume lay, deaconal, and episcopal roles all in one for an abbreviated cuckoo clock ritual that almost ends where it begins.

Liturgical restoration can happen without being liturgical deformation.

These changes, some of which are already happening in our GROWING parish in Illinois, reflects where we can and should be going. Today, liturgy still happens "up there" in the altar with the priests. They do all the offering, entrancing, liturgical actions, lifting hands during the Lord's Prayer, etc. They stand while we sit on pews, they raise their hands while we stand with blank stares, they continue the status quo of baking the prosphora and offering it and processing it into the temple while we assume this will always be done 'for us' as we show up for the show, they exchange the sign (or kiss) of peace while we look on ...

Until these changes happen, there will still be a stage and an audience. With pews and choirs, we will continue to be passive spectators, not worshippers giving glory to God.

Joe

John,

"I wonder about the prosphora used in the Eucharist. Is it baked by parishioners in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church? Why or why not?"

I think that it is baked by parishioners but I'm not sure. Why not ask Father?

Dan Lauffer