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THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!! (PUN INTENDED)

As Diana Ross would say:

"You go, girl!!"

Seriously, though. There has to be a way to make this work. As children of Constantinople's pathway, we have our liturgies to guide us. And we have bishops to provide guidance. And we have the externals that we have inherited from our ancestors. How's about a "Protection of the Mother of God" community? (Who better to help a rag-tag group get rolling?)

Basic commitment: A brief morning prayer service (John Vernoski has published a few versions of this) alone or with others; a commitment to help the poor and needy; a monthly 'internet gathering' (Administrator of the Forum: what do you think? You got the time/resources to set this up?) And a once-a-year day of recollection or mini-retreat to meet and to pray. Find a bishop who doesn't think the Internet is a passing fancy or fluke. Oh yeah, and sharing of Lenten (and other) recipes. (Hey, I like to eat well.)

OK Mech, whatch'a think?

Dear Friends,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Your discussion about the need for a kind of "Third Order" is excellent.

Of course, we have much in our Orthodox-Catholic spiritual heritage to richly support such an enterprise.

I have been studying St Benedict's Rule and find that there is much there to act as a kind of written "Spiritual Elder" for us living in the world.

Spiritual discipline has been absent from my life for a long time and so creating several "pockets" of space in the day where I can pray and read has been a blessing.

Doing this with others and sharing their spiritual experiences and struggles can often be a great personal help in this regard, I have found.

You seem to be establishing just such a brotherhood-sisterhood on-line.

May I belong?

Your servant,

Alex

I am a Secular Franciscan (SFO). We are not rite-specific, ALL Catholics are heartily welcome. Clearly, one should have a sincere desire to follow the Gospel life following the Rule and the example of our great founder, St. Francis. Generally, one can expect to enter a period of inquiry, followed by a period of candidacy (like novitiate), followed by the temporary or permanent profession of the Rule. One should use this formation time wisely to gain knowledge and understanding of the Order and its history and to participate in the good works of the fraternity.

I've got to object a little bit to someone's characterization of this as an "alien order" - it is not. Francis' message, and his simple way of leading a Gospel life, is something that has universal appeal to all Catholics.

Catholicism is not about putting up walls. I guess I had the fortune to grow up with Roman and Eastern rite and Orthodox traditions. I love them both and I always will! I lean one way (Eastern) in my worship style, but I really look to the various traditions and the examples of the various saints, like Francis, as something that should draw people together.

I'm sure that we of the SFO would love to have you among us, Walt! :-)

I think that St. Francis of Assisi is a most wonderful model for folks in our century and in our place. I beleive that his insight into the unity of all creation is a most wonderful insight and a gift to all who appreciate the wonders of the human family and the animals who inhabit the earth with us.

What makes me suspect is the fact that the franciscans of Assisi absolutely prohibit the celebration of the Eastern liturgies at the Basilica of St. Francis. NO Byzantine liturgy whatsoever. Not even the Maronites who are very Westernized. Roman, 100%. Us Byzantines can just go pray in the train station or a local hotel or get out of town.

This is hurtful. So, as the Gospel advises: "if your charity is not returned to you, shake the dust from your feet and move on". I suspect that this is not the perspective of many secular Franciscans, but it's the official policy.

So, thanks; but no, thanks. Let's look at our own Athonite rule and move on from there.

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

There are a number of Athonite rules and observances, I think each monastery keeps its own typikon and guards its customs.

There are many rules in the east, taken from many of the great monastic founders. Following many of these would be difficult, as they are not easily adapted to people living in the world, without the opportunity to practice daily obediences, attend regular hours in Church etc. etc.

Among the rules written in the east, I commend to one and all the rule of Carmel. It is beautiful, simple, challenging, yet amazingly adaptable to many life circumstances and situations. It is an eastern rule that spans east and west, and has inspired many great mystics and heroic saints, as well as many hidden, quiet, and simple people, drawing them to holiness. It has been a great gift to many!

Without taking anything away from your recommendation to look to Athos, may I also add a suggestion that people also consider looking east to that other holy mountain, Carmel? Cradle of monasticism, home of prophets, altar of Elias, visited by the Mother of God, and beacon of hope to monks. The rule of Carmel can offer spiritual vision. The fraternity of Carmel might offer a spiritual home to many.

Elias

The Lord raises up at various times and places His servants who are willing to serve Him. For us American Christians, who are children of the Constantinopolitan theological and spiritual pathway, there might well be the opportunity to establish a pathway based upon not only our traditions, but upon the requisites of our contemporary situation.

I would think (and hope) that the Holy Spirit might well inspire a new foundation of spirituality and hope that is an organic development from our peoples without the need to co-opt the spirituality of an existent group that has its roots in the Church of the West.

I realize very clearly that any 'new' foundation would necessarily be the fruit of living and breathing people, I think that encouraging these contemporary and living Christians to explore spirituality and theological relevance on their own -- without subsuming themselves to some other albeit ancient but nonetheless Roman sanctioned group -- would be a very positive step in both re-establishing and affirming our own legitimate heritage.

The Athonite heritage gives great latitude to the individual monastic community in establishing itself as a viable entity. The 'rule' that is proposed is both universally Christian and "orthodox", but also specific to the Church community of the time. Thus, there could be a very specific devotion to the liturgical hours, as well as a devotion to the production of liturgical texts and music in English, evangelization through TV and other media (like Sister Angelica), or an apostolate of spirituality (such as retreats or spiritual education).

And the advanage would be: they are OUR people without a sub-rosa and hidden motive that comes from a source outside the Constantinopolitan community.

I do not in an way demean the wonderful blessings and graces that come from Western communities (I personally have a great devotion to Ste. Therese d' Lisieux; to her tomb was the only real pilgrimage I've ever made. And as an animal person- I think that St. Francis of Assisi said it all in that all creatures are part of the cosmology of God's creation including my beloved dogs,.... yeah... and even those stupid cats.).

But for us Eastern folks, I truly believe that the necessity is to pray for inspiration, establish a monastic community (with 'secular' supporters), and get the bishop(s) to support it officially as a spiritual support to the Byzantine community(ies).

Then we'll have the spiritual support that we need without the need to (once again) seek the support of the Western communities.

While we are grateful for all the support we have received, I think we need to fend for ourselves without having to rely upon 'spiritual welfare payments' from the West.

Blessings upon all!

Peace and All Good to you, Dr. John! There are certainly many Orders and many Rules and many ways to serve God and His people. My precise path may not be yours and your precise path may not be mine, but let us pray that we will choose that which is good and right and just and charitable.

Monk Elias,

What you post is very interesting but the Carmelites are a Western Roman Catholic Order, run from Rome. While we Byzantines respect the Roman Catholic way it is not ours. Forgive us, but since our Church has been very much mistreated in the past by your Roman Catholic Church we are very leary of Westerners claiming to be Eastern. Could you possibly provide evidence to indicate that there is a sect of Carmel that is more authentically Orthodox than Athos? Are there Byzantine Carmelite monasteries?

Jeff

Dear Brother Jeff,
Forgive me, a sinner!

If I may, I just wanted to comment on the interesting points you raise with respect to the Carmelites.

Archbishop Raya once told me that there are indeed Byzantine Rite Carmelites in Israel. They were under his Omophorion.

The earliest hermits of Mount Carmel were, of course, Greeks. Later, defeated Crusaders took their place in the caves of Carmel, near the Spring of Elias.

The Greek hermits followed the spirituality of the Thebaid. The Latin hermits were organized by St Albert of Jerusalem who gave them a rule of life that was later supplanted by the Rule of St Augustine. Later Latin Carmelites tried to return to the eremitical spirit of Mt. Carmel, such as St Teresa of Spain.

The hermits of Mt. Carmel venerated a Byzantine Icon of the Mother of God which was dedicated to "Our Lady of Mt. Carmel." This miraculous icon is now in the Cathedral of Naples in Italy where it is called the "Brown Madonna" owing to the brown colour of the Mother and Child. A later restoration included a Scapular on the hand of the Mother of God.

It was actually because of the Eastern Church roots of the hermits of Mt. Carmel that the Benedictines wanted to expel the new Order from England.

Simon Stock was their leader at the time at Aylesford. "Stock" came from his hermitage in the hollowed out trunk of an oak tree.

He asked the Mother of God for help and She appeared before him holding Her Mantle of Protection or Pokrova.

St Simon Stock was told, according to sources, that the Mantle of the Mother of God would protect him and all the hermits of Mt. Carmel.

The later Carmelites came to understand their brown or black scapulars that, at one time, everyone wore to be a visible, outward sign of their being under the Protection of the Mother of God. The modern Scapular devotion is well known.

There is also a miraculous western picture that is numbered among the Relics of the Orthodox Church. It is a locally venerated picture of the Mother of God of Mt. Carmel, the Brown Madonna, and is to be found in the Orthodox monastery of "Horodyschensk."

Carmelite spirituality is essentially that of the Desert. Modern Carmelites of the Latin Rite are really a later development and, to be honest, don't belong to the tradition of the early Carmelites.

As such, Carmelite spirituality is entirely in keeping with that of the Orthodox Church.

God bless,

Alex

Discalced Byzantine Carmelite Nuns
Annunciation Monastery
RD 1 Box 1336
Sugarloaf, PA 18249
Phone: 570-788-5310
http://nyssa.cecs.uofs.edu/carmelite.html

I think that this association already exists.
You attach yourself as a lay person to a particular monastery were you recieve a modified typicon for your life. Under the direction of a spiritual father. (I think they are called aggregates.

Try contacting Mt Tabor "Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Ukiah CA for more info.

Stephanos
Unworthy Monk and Arch sinner

The best choice: go and talk with your pastor or even your bishop. They have the responsibility for the spiritual charge of your soul.

If one feels the need to go beyond the 'ordinary', the pastor or bishop will give you guidance. Rather than go to an already existing community, one might be called to begin an ascetical life on one's own that may, down the line, lead to the formation of a spiritual confraternity right where one lives. It is this that leads to the formation of spiritual communities that so enrich the Church.

The 'established' Western monastic communities are wonderful and a rich source of blessings for the whole Church. But perhaps there is something more that can blossom from the graces that a person is being given. Just a thought.

Blessings to all!