www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News EU warns Turkey over religion law

EPublished by Ekathimerini.com, August 5, 2005

EU warns Turkey over religion law

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Commission said yesterday that it had written to Turkey complaining about legislation on religious foundations that did not meet EU standards for the rights of non-Muslim communities.

But the European Union�s executive stressed that the mid-June complaint, which it said Turkey had promised to address in October, did not threaten a planned October 3 start for entry talks.

�Today, Turkey is far from fulfilling all the criteria to be a member of the European Union. Freedom of religion is the highest priority for us and it would be an essential point in the negotiations,� Commission spokesman Amadeu Altafaj Tardio told a news briefing.

Turkey is working on a new law meant to ease property restrictions on its non-Muslim minorities, including Orthodox Christians, though EU diplomats have said the current draft does not go far enough.

Istanbul-based Patriarch Vartholomaios, ecumenical head of the Orthodox Church, has long complained that his church suffers from numerous petty bureaucratic regulations that prevent it from freely using property it owns. His calls for the reopening of the Church�s Halki seminary on an island near Istanbul have not brought results, and he is worried there will be no home-grown clergy left to minister to the declining Greek Orthodox faithful in a few years� time.

The EU spokesman said Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn had contacted chief Turkish negotiator Ali Babacan on Wednesday.

Ankara had already revised the draft bill once, but had not made sufficient changes in the Commission�s view.

�The Turkish authorities are well aware of the importance of this issue, which will be addressed once the Turkish Parliament resumes its activities in October,� the spokesman said.

He did not detail the objections, but a partial text of the letter seen by Reuters spoke of �serious problems in relation to the management of the religious communities� foundations, their property rights and the legal personality of communities.�

In a Reuters interview last year, the Orthodox patriarch said, �We have the freedom to perform all our religious services but we have no right to administer our ecclesiastical foundations � churches, monasteries, cemeteries, schools etc.�

The German daily Handelsblatt was first to report the recent Commission letter amid growing pressure on Turkey to recognize Cyprus before the start of the EU talks, something Ankara refuses to do.

(Additional reporting by Gareth Jones in Ankara.)

Frankly, I would not be surprised to see Turkey enter the EU without any major concessions such as easing the restrictions on religious minorities, owning up to the Armenian massacres or recognizing Cyprus. Ultimately I think the EU will be more concerned about economic interests than anything else, and will also want to appear to be being friendly to Islam.

Sad to say, I think both the presence of Greeks in Constantinople and the days of the Ecumenical Patriarchate are numbered and I expect both to be extinct within fifty years.

Andrew

I offer a more optimistic assessment, proposing that the Hellenic Republic will use its veto over the accession of any new state to the EU in order to ensure incresed freedom for the Patriarchate.

"If I were in charge," I'd even squeeze out of them (the Turks) the right to celebrate the Divine Liturgy at Hagia Sofia on Sundays and major feast days.

But, hey, I'm not in charge.

Andrew, who is in charge of very little.

It's hard to say, I have to stick with my pessimism though based on the things described in this article [telegraph.co.uk] . I believe Archbishop Christodoulos backed down from the statements quoted in the story and that the Greek government distanced themselves from them as well.

That I can confidently say will never happen. That dream died when Ataturk ran the Greek army off of Asia Minor. The Turkish government and Turkish nationalists would never accept its use again as a Christian temple.

The other Andrew

A reasonable minimum demand for Agia Sophia would be the possiblity of using it - legally and openly - 3 or 4 times per year (for Pascha and two or three other stated occasions). But that's the least of it.

In most places in Turkey it is legally impossible to have, organize, initiate or conduct a Christian place of worship.

While Turkish law theoretically provides for the right of legal person, the restrictions around it are so tight as to make it impossible to use this "right". As a result, all churches except the Greek Orthodox churches (which are protected by the Treaty of Lausanne) in Constantinople, on Imvros and on Tenedos must be held as private property - and are taxed heavily if left to any heir but a near blood relative of the deceased owner - and said heir must be a Turkish citizen.

There's lots more, but that will do for a starter.

Incognitus the Inquisitive Inquisitor

It will be a sort of test for the Hellenic Republic and their willingness to veto Turkish accession to the EU.

If their faith is strong and they seek to glorify God, they may quietly achieve much.

However, if their leadership caves in to pressure from the EU financial elite, then nothing will be gained. I leave that as a distinct possibility all the while trying to live in faith for a better day.

My visit to Agia Sofia was truly moving for me and my family. And those security guards just couldn't figure out who was quietly chanting the Kyrie Eleison over and over again.......

In Christ,
Andrew

The turkish republic will sooner or later get his teacher!The tension between Turkey and Greece is and will continue, and nowadays there is big unrest in Bulgaria again the local Turks. Turkish spies come in the country to "bribe" the local muslims and in near future they plan an ethnic invasion not only in Bulgaria but in Greece too, provoking inexisting uptonow ethnic conflicts.I find that Turkey has never left the agressive religious expansive politic from the near past. Well of course if we are lucky enough the internal problems of this state and a major conflict that can come in the future, provoked by themselves trying to "unite" the divided turkish state may cause the final disentegration of the Republic. I think that a muslim conservative state, has not a place in the EU. Lets pray that the EU politicians are wise enough to take all what they can before giving them the right to call themselves a EU members.

Dear Alexios,

I read your post with great interest.

I couldn't agree with you more about Turkey's expansionist ideas.

Almost inevitably, every year, there is a little incident of Turkish warplanes deliberately flying over Greek air space.

Despite these 'incidents', the Greek people and government have been going out on a limb trying to befriend Turkey in the name of peace.

Ofcourse the question remains, can a leopard ever change its spots?

I also agree that a Muslim country should not be in the EU, but we Orthodox are between a rock and a hard place with our Ecumenical Patriarch being there.

In Christ,
Alice

Turkey is also not very Kurd friendly either. Let us not forget them as well.

Dear Andrew you said:

"I offer a more optimistic assessment, proposing that the Hellenic Republic will use its veto over the accession of any new state to the EU in order to ensure incresed freedom for the Patriarchate."

The only reason the Hellenic Republic wants Turkey in the EU is because it is being threatened... continuously. The Turkish war jets have been flying over Greek airspace for the past 15 years. They leave when chased by the Greek jets.

Now what is the problem? It seems Turkey wants rights in the Aegean that she is not entitled to. Not according to all treaties regarding the sea. Turkey has always insisted that the 1/2 of Cyprus, which she invaded 30 years ago and occupied, be discussed together with the rights in the Aegean. Greece has refused.

In the meantime, Turkey conducted her ethnic cleansing and imported Turks from Turkey to live in the homes the Greeks deserted on Cyprus when the Turkish army appeared.

Now it's a difficult thing for an army to cross a sea, if it wasn't Hitler would have invaded the British isles. The problem was that Greece was under a dictatorship and was being undermined by her own people throughout the world.

That was the opportunity Turkey was looking for. As one Turk said, the Greeks are unbeatable when united, but all one has to do is wait for the opportune time. The Greeks are bound to start fighting among themselves....and they did.

It seems Secretary of State Kissinger preferred Turkey to a Cypriot leader that was looking towards the Soviets. Kissinger deceived the Greeks who had intended to fight, and told them to allow the Turks to come on the island and that they will soon leave because she cannot afford to have her troops remain on Cyprus.

Actually, she couldn't but the extra amount it cost was exactly the amount we were giving her....I believe through Germany.

Well to end that story, Ford lost the election, especially when he mentioned Turkey as a longtime friend and the cameras turned to a smiling Kissinger. It has been shown that the amount of money the Republican party lost was exactly that which was held back by the Greek Americans. Kissinger never again held office.

Actually I believe that he was fooled by the then Premier of Turkey Echevit. They were old friends. Actually I think Echevit was his student.

Now to get back to Turkey's expansion and desire to rebuild the Ottoman Empire. The Albanians that were in Kosovo have now total control of that area. The Serbs are leaving for fear of their lives.

In the meantime, the Treaty of Lausanne allowed the Patriarch to remain in Constantinope while 25,000 Turks would remain in Greek Thrace. Well the majority of people living in Istanbul were Greeks and they have been ethnically cleansed during the pogroms of the 1950's and 1960's. Yet the Turks that were allowed to remain in Greek Thrace are now exceeding 125,000.

If we consider that it won't be long before they will make up some kind of excuse to start calling for their 'freedom', as will the Macedonian Turks, the Bulgarian and all the rest, that part of the world is in trouble. They will completely surround Greece, so is it any wonder that Greece finds that the only solution is to have Turkey in the EU.

In the meantime, Turkey has also managed to see that their will be no one eligible to become Patriarch because they must have Turkish citizenship.

It will all come down though to a vote by the people in the EU countries. I'm not too sure they will really want her considering that it will cost them a great deal, and their countries will be flooded with Turkish immigrants. Now that's not too bad, but what's to hold Turkey back from allowing Muslims to freely enter her borders so that they can enter Europe more readily.

Zenovia

A friend of mine had spoken with a priest in Adrianople (todays Edirne). He asked him what the Orthodox church do in the lands of Turkey for a future Christianisation. The reaction of this priest was astonishing. He put him in a dark corner and only say, dont speak about this in dangerous! nobody speak of this here. And this is only a small exemple from the fear that the orthodox people have living there. In Adrianople i have information there is left only 4 orthodox families...even the bulgarians living there, that were born and living in Bulgaria, call themselves turks. Behind the mask of a opening country, Turkey hide its old face of tirrany, that can never dissapear. I find that the other EU countries are interested more in economical opportunities that clearing the ethnical genocide and problems. The problem for the turkish state is if its open their politics for democracy, with the country will be finished. you know that most of the population in Asia Minor live like in the Medieval ages.
I find that we must work together with the Orthodox patriarch and church to get all our freedoms back!If i must speak about Bulgaria and the situation now, the fact is that there is a wave of turkish people coming from Turkey - payed by the local authorities, to come here get bulgarian pasports, pretending they have lived here since 1989. Most of these people dont even know a word bulgarianand guess what you can see in their eyes. Bur this is another questions. We will see what the future will bring us, but i have hope and i appeal to all orthodox brothers and sisters to unite and work all together! The greek lobby in USA is maybe one of the most important factors...
God save all and give us strenghts
+Alexios

There was a large Greek-Catholic church in Adrianople 100 years ago. At the time of the ethnic cleansing after World War I the faithful (who were Bulgarians, of course) were forced to go to Bulgaria at the drop of a hat; they managed to take a few icons and other liturgical treasures from the church in Adrianople but that was about it.

Send the Turks back to Sinkiang!

Incognitus the Inquisitive Inquisitor

We Chinese don't want 'em!

Wait, though, isn't France in the EU? I seem to recall some flap over the French not letting Christians kids wear visible crosses or Muslim girls wear scarves to school, right? So how is THAT religious freedom? (Or did France relent?)

Hey, Turkey DEFINITELY needs to do better. No argument there. But I'm wondering how the EU defines religious freedom, precisely. Does anyone know that? This post got me very curious about that (good post, thanks).

Dear Alexios,

As I stated, Greece is the nation inviting Turkey into the EU. The hope is that if Turkey has to comply with the EU regulations things might change. The Turkish government is trying...or so they say.

If she doesn't enter the EU she will join forces with other 'Turkish' nations, probably those that were in the former Soviet Union.

You know years ago every nation in Europe was trying to rebuild it's former empire. They stopped that with the present economic stability of the EU...So now we have to contend with the Arabs trying to rebuild the Caliphate and the Turks the Ottoman Empire.

Either way they are Muslims and that is part of their faith. President Bush is trying to change the situation by changing Muslim Iraq into a democracy, but he not only has to contend with the terrorists and the death of our finest men, but also with propaganda from the French, Germans and the liberals in his own government.

Zenovia