We were having a enlightened discussion about the origins of kielbasa. Some were saying it was Rusyn because it had to have came from Sub-Carpathia. But the Ukrainians said that Sub-Carpathia is in Ukraine therefore Kielbasa had to be noted as being originally from Ukraine. The Polish guy said, "no, no, no! Kielbasa was invented in Warsaw and taken to the Carpathian mountains by Jesuits in the 1600's therefore kielbasa is Polish in origin.
I'm confused, what do you all think?
Is kielbasa Polish, Ukrainian, or Rusyn?

How about all three? I cannot believe that sausage did not exist before 1600.
I am sure there is a lot of cross-cultural borrowing in Eastern Europe.
Who invented cabbage rolls? Borscht? How can any of this be proved?

Who cares anyway?

Jusy enjoy the food.

Actually, since Carpatho Russia, Ukraine and Poland all belong to Russia, kielbasa is actually Russian!


Alexandr, ducking for cover!!!

Matvey,

You crack me up, man!

X.B. B.B.!

Ung

This is as futile as debating if baklava and stuffed Grape leaves are Greek, Lebanese or Turkish? Who cares? Just choose the particular recipe you like best and eat...

Alice

I thought Sts. Cyrill and Methodius and their disciples introduced kolbassy (kovbassi, kielbassy, I forget the Hungarian name, etc.) to Greater Moravia, So. Poland, and Pannoia in c.863 A.D., and later brought it to Kyiv in c. 988 A.D. Soon after, the Germanic Holy Roman Emperor denounced this act, and forced these Slavs to eat "Bratwurst" instead. This was only cleared up after the Pope recalled Cyrill and Methodius to Rome to straighten out this culinary heresy!

X.B.! B.B.! Smachnoho!

Ung

It's Welsh in origin and was known as Cyllbasedd. It was carried to Eastern Europe by two brothers, Cyryl and Mawrthyd.

A much more important question: Who stole the kishka?

I can't tell the difference between Kolbasi or Italian sausage. I get heartburn from both! But boy are they delicious!

You have to experience homemade or at least made at a specialty shop kielbasa to really experience it. The stuff you buy at the supermarket doesn't compare to home made nor the two or three varieties they have at the Eastern European Store near here...
But to be fair the Russian... err.. Eastern European shop sells Carpathian Kielbasa, let me think how they write it, Karpatskya I think... not karpatska though
homemade beats all though.
That supermarket stuff is greasy.

None of the above. I was always taught that kielbasa was a bad Italian sausage recipe that was sold cheaply to the Slavs in Krakow. You know those Florentine merchants could not pass up an opportunity to make a quick bit of change on an otherwise useless recipe. I understand the British came in second place on the bidding for the recipe.

I have to say I wonder how well it would do in certain areas of Scotland - bearing in mind that the Italians opened the Fish and Chip shops that sell deep fried Mars Bars.

We have plenty of Poles here - I wonder how they would look on deep fried Kielbasa

Xpucmoc Bockpec

Is kielbasa Rusyn, Ukrainian or Polish?

Who cares but it is simply DELICIOUS!

Kolya

Dear Rusyns,

Kielbassa was actually a pagan food that was offered to honour the wild boar-god of the forests in pre-Christian times among the East Slavs.

Historically and culturally, the Slavs were deathly afraid of the forests. It was in the forest that all sorts of evil existed and the pagan Slavs felt the need to placate embodiments of such evil, such as the dangerous wild boar, with rites and sacrifices. Enter - kielbassa which when offered to the wild boar god was then consumed as a formm of "communion."

The form of kielbassa used in such rites persisted and the Orthodox Patriarchs were all too painfully aware of its pagan roots. They wrote several times to the Kozaks (now what were they - Ukrainian, Rusyn or Polish?)to ask them to refrain from bringing kielbassa for the Church blessing of Easter foods etc.

Of course, the Kozaks never obeyed such commands . . . Some pagan traditions were definitely worth keeping (and which true Slav could disagree with them?). If anything, this made the Kozaks even more "pro-kielbassa."

So the kielbassa tradition is basically that of Rus' and the Rusyny descended from the Eastern Slavs. The material culture is largely shared with Poland and south eastern Poland in particular (we do know that Poland received Christianity from the East and only later became RC). And the Poles took much from the Rusyn-Ukrainian tradition. Just ask any Pole to say the word "two" in Polish . . .

But the Poles have improved on the Rusyn kielbassa (as we always feared they would . . .).

They have mastered the tradition of frying kielbassa on an open pan by slicing a piece lengthwise and putting the two pieces down and over - rather than the primitive Rusyn way of slicing kielbassa in many pieces that only dries them out by the time they are ready to be served.

In Williamsville, NY there is a pancake house, run by a wonderful Polish family, that prepares kielbassa with pancakes that tastes like nobody's business!

One more reason to salute our Kozak heritage!

Alex

Actually I would think that the national affiliation of the stuff depends on how one spells its name!

Fr. Serge

Glory to Jesus Christ!

This is not much of a debate- KOLB�SZ is Hungarian!

http://members.aol.com/HungImprts/Deli.htm

K�sz�n�m sz�pen,

Deacon El

We just had Lebonese/Palistenian cabbage rolls at a graduation this past weekend.

Just thought I would add that for interest

From the butcher shop???

SOMEONE CALL THE COPS!!!

What about "Hurka"? The Magyar-Ruszins in my town used to make and sell "Hurdka". I guess it is the same as Kishka.

Ung

Bless Father Archimandrite,

Yes, you are right. I was just trying to be ecumenical . . .

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

I love this! A two page discussion about the ethnic origin of a sausage! Having both Polish and Slovak in my background I really don't where I stand on this issue.

By the way Alice, grape leaves=Lebanese. No question about it.
Just a joke. Enjoy the food, everyone!

God bless and keep you....

Dear Father Deacon El,

Well, it certainly sounds better when spelled that way! And it makes one "hungary" for it . . .

Alex

Jashu has the Kishka, Jashu stole the Kishka, from the butcher shop.

:Who stole the Kishka, who stole the Kishka, who stole the Kishka, better bring it back. (refrain)

Ung

Ung,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Yes, Hurka is also a Hungarian type of sausage. It is rather different than kolb�sz. It is a rice & liver sausage, which at first may not sound too great, but when cooked, the taste is absolutely wonderful.

This brings back delightful memories. I almost hate to say it, but it tastes even better with a little ketchup on it.

Deacon El

Well, since the sausage in question is listed as "kielbasa" in the title of this thread, the Poles win.

End of discussion.

MY question -- I know what pierogi and galumpki are, but what the heck are pyrohy and halupki?

and can I get any bleenies?

Oy, I must add my 2 cents , I teach everyone in my office it's kowbassa - ukrainian prononciation .
Pyrohy can be varenyky -vareni- boiled hence they also are if you must pierogi. or baked -pecheni .

Halupki - do you mean holubtsi -cabbage rolls ? you know in the east here it is lunchtime ...

marusia
(ukrainska cook)

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

I have to go with Alice on this one. Just bring on lots of whatever you want to call it and bring along lots of other picnic food.

I suggest a "throwdown" like they have on the food channel. If you'd all like to come to Hollidaysburg, PA, I'll see if I can rent the park in town and we'll have the first annual Kielbassa competition and picnic sometime this summer. Just be sure to bring along tons of your own favorite and some potato salad and some . . .

BTW, there used to be a meat market in Portage that made their own homemade and it was out of this world.

BOB

There are quite a few varieties of this "Eastern European Sausage" and the flavors vary considerably.

I wonder if they are ever served with "Mediterranean Salad".

Fr. Serge

That Secret Squirrel

But Secret Squirrel could this whole thing be a part of a conspiracy theory?--perhaps a Roman subversion to the culinary history of an entire region?

What? Next time I see you eating pyrohy I am taking pictures.

Woohoo! Legion Park is always a good place to have a picnic.

Tak' pravda, Marusia - kovbasa.
FDRLB (ukrainska food lover)

In reality there is a rich assortment of sausage types, recipes, meats, etc. all throughout Eastern Europe.

Just in Ukraine you can go from the Krakovska or Wieska-style ham kovbasa of the Premyshyl' and L'viv areas, down to the Bukovinska and other mountain styles (probably my favorites), and many others such as Donetskiy, usually beef and something like a salami.

It might have been a plot by the Italians to Latinize the Slavs via culinary means!

So let's bring them all together. We''ll just have to make sure the picnic follows a fasting, meat-free period like the Dormition Fast.

BOB

Bliny? Make your own - it's not hard if you can find matzoh meal.

Fr. Serge

Mr Orthodox Pyrohy, of course I know what pyrohy are! It was a linguistic joke, because I eat pierogi (being of Polish descent) and galumpki = halupki, of course.

Fr. Serge, I burn the darn things every time. The polish parish I grew up in is sooo good at frying bleeni that the line is usually the biggest at the annual picnic -- the wait can be over an hour long!

I've finally mastered my grandmother's dill pickle recipe... mmmmm!

Ok, the pinic's forming up. domilsean can bring a barrel of homemade pickles.

BOB

Well the first post does speak of the sausage being introduced into the Trans-Carpathian region in the 1600's by Jesuits. Most likely these were Italian Jesuits who studied in Rome. I think we maybe getting close to the answer. Can we crack the "Kielbasa Code?"

We officially inducted you into the Rusyn nation remember?

Father Serge, Matzo meal is readily available in most grocery stores around here. Now I may have to make blini. But if Domilsean comes I'll have to make him pierogies.

SS. Peter and Paul ACROD Church in Windber make some great "domashi" Kolbassi and serve it at their food festival every August. Duzhe fajno indeed!

Ung

Ah, keep the Hunky Pravoslavny full of Kolbassi, and they won't care about the terms of the c.1596 and c.1646 Unions. Yes, that is an intriguing hypothesis, indeed!

Ung

That's right, subjugation of the faith through a full stomach! And let's not forget that Frankish German sauerkraut that was foisted upon us to make the filioque more palatable.

Also, let's not forget the Transylvanian connection in all this. The abundant use of garlic in kielbasi was to keep blood-thirsty vampires away. Without the use of garlic, our people were very sleep deprived because they always thought that these vampires were going to get them during the night.

It is no accident that this old country "cupola"
[Linked Image]

is not an onion, but a garlic bulb.

This conspiracy may actually be getting tastier.

Ray

Ung:

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

So when is their festival this year? Will you keep us posted?

BOB

Hmmmm, interesting. It looks like another piece in the puzzle to the "Kielbasa Code" has been found!

It is usually the first Sunday in August, since they won't celebrate the Dormition until August 28th, it is held before the "Uspenskyj Pust".

Ung

We are again getting closer to the "conspiracy".

The original spelling is K-O-L' - basi. "Kol" is one of the Slavic gods of antiquity. When Cyril and Methodius came to our lands, they asked the natives what that long sausage-like food they were eating. They quickly responded, "KOL'basi" at which the two saintly brothers changed the name so it was not afflilated with paganism any longer. So "kielbasy" became the new name.

Pockets of "Kol'basy" still exist throughout the Slavic world.
[Linked Image]


Source: "Veka"Pidia

LOL! ;-)

Ray

OK, I'll bring a barrel of pickles. But I'm warning you, they are extremely addictive and go only too well with kielbasa. If we have enough time, I'll also bring a big old tub of homemade fermented sauerkraut (takes a few weeks to brew).

my mouth is watering.

As for the pierogies... I got off school one day in 1994 to go to the Schuylkill Mass to represent my high school (Nativity BVM) in a Mrs. T's Pierogies eating contest. While the rest of the fools were swallowing them whole (the winner ate 27 in 3 minutes), I took the time to enjoy them -- they were perfectly cooked and covered in butter and onions! Why chug perfectly good pierogies?

Another fun anecdote -- my family bases receptions on who makes the best halupki. Honest to God. For my brother's wedding, the Ukrainians had the best halupki-in-bulk deal. For my grandfather's after-funeral dinner, the Ruthenians had the best deal. It's kind of weird, but we love the stuff.

I'm ready for the picnic NOW!

Plus we'll need fresh rye bread, unsalted butter and young garlic thinly sliced. Yep that'll cure what ever ails you. I'll get get my MIL working on the varenyky -melt-in-your-mouth dough. And fried salt pork bits with onions much better than bacon bits. Except on Fasting days .....


marusia

Indeed, everyday brings us closer to cracking the "Kielbasa Code"

Ray!! Most awesome work, keep it up.

No need to debate the original source...just cook 'em and eat !


james, a Politaliano...

domilsean:

Judging from your other posts and this one--definitely this one--I can see that your mother didn't raise any fool.

Picnic: Got kielbassa, pierogies, halushki, sauerkraut, homemade pickles. Gotta add a couple kegs of beer.

I know, I'll bring the "Bean-o." Lots of Bean-o.

BOB

Bob, you know you keep talking about this picnic......
So who is really coming?
Mr. Domilsean will have to bring his pickles, his famous sauerkraut and his kielbasa. I'll bring halupki and pyrohy. Who's bringing the blini?

Has anyone heard of the personal prelature of Opus Victus? Much isn't found on the internet and even at that their website are written in code, like John Nash type code, no like DaVinci Code type code.
There has been a long rumor this group has been funding the subversion of Byzantine rite tradition in favor of Latin rite tradition for years by way of food subversion. They also are reported to have had a heavy hand in the reformation of the Latin rite in the 1950's and 60's by introducing jarred spaghetti sauces to achieve their goals. They meet in the personal prelature's kitchens to devise recipes to subvert rites that may be looked upon as possibly questioning the Holy See, and coming up with food that will make those peoples lethargic and subservient.
Often these changes were blamed on the FreeMasons however through years of code cracking signs are pointing to this highly secret group, Opus Victus.

[Linked Image]

Tradition has it that Cardinal Andrea D'Victussi started this group in ultimate secrecy in 1604 A.D. Members entered the Jesuits and studied in Rome. The group and Cardinal D'Victussi set their sights on the Carpathian Mountains of Eastern Europe. Sending their secret members who were now Jesuit missionaries they sought to change and latinize the Slavs in Eastern Europe. As we can see evidence of this has been mounting in this thread.

OP:

I'm just trying to see if there's some traction for some of the members here to get together for a kielbassa picnic. If there's no interest . . .


BOB

Isn't Hollidaysburg near Cresson? I go there with my Father every summer. I'd be interested in the picnic.

Couple miles away. Maybe this "tongue-in-cheek" suggestion will take off.

BOB

My dear Eastern European friends,

Although I grew up in the 'melting pot' of the world--New York City--every area/neighborhood (almost the size of towns, as New York's boroughs are huge) had/has its own distinctive ethnic mix...so my area was mostly Italian, Norwegian, and some Greek, and the Eastern European/Polish neighborhoods were so far away in distance, that I never even drove through them or knew anyone there...Therefore, I never saw or even heard of a 'pierogie'!

I had more partaking and knowledge of Jewish foods (knish, pastrami, etc.) than Eastern European...

Admittedly, I never knew the delight of Pierogies until the Great Fast this year!! In my supermarket, there is a 'gourmet' fresh pasta and other goods section, and there is a variety of 'freshly' made 'gourmet' pierogies there.

They are a little expensive, but worth the fresh factor, since I don't have a granny that can make them for me!

Since I was missing my beloved stuffed pastas because of the Great Fast, (like tortellini, ravioli, etc...I am obsessed w/pasta--my hubbie says that he cannot believe that I am not Italian, but then again, some of the areas which my ancestors came from were occupied at one time by the Genoese for centuries!), so imagine how thrilled I was to discover pierogies--all the yum factor of stuffed pasta, but NO dairy (atleast that I know of, so please don't ruin it for me if there is any in the dough, because ignorance can be bliss when it comes to the loooooooong Lenten fast).

I like the cabbage and potato filling and the spinach and potato filling. I saute them in a good quality extra virgin olive oil until they are crispy and season them w/salt and pepper. Sometimes I eat them on a plate of sauteed onions like you guys do...It is great Fasting (and otherwise ofcourse) fare!

Alice

Bob, I'm always up for a picnic! Especially one in the neighborhood of our dearly beloved county.

ALICE:

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

We don't have gourmet Pierogies here but there are several brands that come frozen that are not so bad.

BOB

You can usually get pyrohy off some of the Orthodox churches in the area that are quite good. Of course you have Mrs. T's. Then the cheap grocery store sells these pyrohy from Canada that are actually ok.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Mrs. T's. The McDonald's equivalent of pirohi.

Hey now. Mrs. T's a great local company. They've introduced pierogie to the world.

And I'm in for the picnic, now that the beer's been added.

But maybe someone else should get the kielbasa, because I don't have a good butcher.

I agree. As a Pole I am not going to fight for the Polish origin of kielbasa. I am going to devour it, fried with onion is the best.
See home-made or country sausage (home-made in Poland means traditional):
http://polandsite.proboards104.com/...ion=display&thread=19&page=4#930


Someone mentioned kishka - it`s delicious, too.
http://polandsite.proboards104.com/...tion=display&thread=19&page=2#97

Etnick:

To a starving man, even McDonald's is a place to be thankful for. We do have some local churhces that make pierogies, but they don't do it on a regular basis.

If we have a picnic, will the purists be offended if the kielbassa is grilled over charcoal?

BOB

er, try again

Bob, nope! Sounds good. Maybe I'll even run over to the Russian store if I get a chance and bring some of the thin slicked capratho kielbasa which doesn't need cooked (Marc will point out the Pittsburgh regional dialect in that sentence). So who is coming, when, and where? Can we get Legion Park Bob?

OP:

I'll have to check into that. By this time most of the pavilions have been reserved for rental for the summer. I'll see if I can reach someone who does the scheduling. We do need to take this seriously, though, and ask how many of the board's members are interested.

Then it's a matter of getting organized: menu, misc like charcoal, etc. Are we having a "throwdown" where people bring different kinds and brands so we can see who's got the best kielbassa? BTW, I have some neighbors who would volunteer to serve as judges.

BOB

I'm a purist. I absolutely insist on charcoal for grilling. Gas grills are for sissies

However, I'm going to need a two or three month lead time to make the beer . . . much longer if you want a lager rather than ale.

hawk

hawk:

I'll get on the schedule issue right away. The only other issue I had with Ortho P was the issue of anyone here who is under age coming and wanting a beer.

BOB

hawk:

What I meant was that it seemed that most wanted to cook indoors and not over charcoal.

BOB

The question has been tossed around. Is there serious interest out there for a kielbassa throwdown picnic in Central PA this summer?

If I can get a spot at my hometown park where there is a kiddie park and places for softball, who and how many would come?

What would folks like for a menu? If we're to have a "throwdown," how many kinds of kielbassa will there be and who will be bringing some of it? Picnic food or a mixture with ethnic goodies?

Looking for some serious answers.

BOB

We may as well be upfront about this issue Bob!

-The legal age to consume alcohol in the U.S.A. is 21.
-To those under 21 years of age coming to this picnic you will be expected to obey the drinking age law. If you aren't 21 or older and can't prove it then your hand better not be near the beer cooler or a bottle of wine or vodka, etc...
-Not only will the over 21 year old people at the picnic take this law seriously the Pennsylvania State Police will....... their police station is directly across the street from this park. The local city police also frequently patrol this park as well.
Please if you attend the picnic and are underage follow the law and do not touch the alcohol, Pennsylvania has a zero tolerance blood alcohol count limit for those under 21 years of age. None of us want to lose jobs, businesses and numerous other rights because of someone underage drinking. It is a serious issue and frankly I wouldn't mind this picnic being alcohol free.
The most important thing is to have a gathering of people, eat some good food, live and laugh a little and have fun.

Please schedule it sometime time after July 1st, as I may being traveling to Staryj Kraju in June. Matt, Theophan, will it be in Blair County? I haven't been "up there" for several years since my college days at Penn State-Altoona. Is the small Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church still open in Altoona? I'll make sure I'm visiting Windber that weekend.

Ung

Kielbasa is polish , Kowbasa/kubasa / is ukrainian /rusyn/
ukrainian kowbasa taste me better then polish kielbasa

Can't tell you for sure. Until recently they had Liturgy on Saturday evenings because the priest lived in Barnesboro, now Northern Cambria and the drive is about 40+ miles one way.

Might have to be in August at this point due to the park's calendar.

BOB

I used to go to both churches when Father Gutherie was pastor. St. Mary Church (Altoona) had a Saturday evening liturgy, while Barnesboro had their liturgy on Sunday morning. I hear that Fr. Paul is still serving parishes in Eastern PA. I need to visit him sometime, he's a awesome priest!

Ung

I have a dickens of a time trying to cook Kiska. it always falls apart. Any suggestions?

Oh, and depending on the date, you can count me in (unless the date is one on which I can't attend). I owe Pyrohy big time.

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

Well, I just heard that Chobany's Market in Portage is no more but there is another, Porinchak's Market, that does a great job with kielbassa and sausage.

BOB

Your attendance at this event will be mandatory. Only doctor's excuses and or absence for research in debunking the Kielbasa Code will be accepted.

I've heard tell of a butcher shop so renowned, it has been enshrined in song -- Christmas song, no less.

The location of this particular shrine to tubular meat has been described as "north of the mountain". And I've also heard that when ordering sliced meats, one's options are limited to "tick" and "tin".

So, I was prompted to do a bit of research, and discovered that this shop is not only famous for it's kielbasa, but OWNS the kielbasa URL:

http://www.kielbasy.net/

Kowalonek's Kielbasy Shop of Shenandoah, PA. I believe, my friends, that Kowalonek's is the Rosslyn Chapel of the kielbasa world.

NB: You can hear the songs on the website, too!

Oh wow... they even have KIELBASY DIP!

I can't look at their website any more or I'm afraid I'll be smitten with the call of the Kielbasa Code and quit my job, forsake my family, and immediately drive to Shenandoah 462 and spend all of my money on pork.

Domilsean,

Shenandoah and Centraila are pretty close. I wonder if the ongoing mine fire in Centrailia has something to do with the Kielbasa Code and the close proximity to the Kowalonek's shop?
I think we are getting close.
Pick me up on the way, we'll jet down 322 to 81 north. We've got pork to buy and codes to crack.

yeah, but I couldn't resist

If this was *much* further west, I really would bring beer or wine. Or if it was still 3 or 4 years ago, when I was in DuBois . . .

hawk

Wasn't there a Meat Market in Altoona called "Nizhnik's" or something with an "N" that made great Kolbassi??

Ung??

I don't remember ever seeing a real Russian eating kielbasa. On the other hand, real Russians are rare in NE Pa.

Dn. Robert

The Hungarian name is "kolbasz"!

Can't tell you. I'm transplanted here.

BOB

OP:

Have you and domilsean thought about simply having some of this treat from Shenandoah sent to you packed in dry ice? With the price of gasoline, it might make more sense than to take a trip to NE PA.

BOB

Count yourself lucky. Those carnivorous sausage get vicious when hungry, and are known to eat members of other ethnic groups. Why, just last week a we had a German Eating Brat eat two Irishmen and an Italian . . .



hawk, reveling in the vaguearies of English Grammer (while fleeing the English Eating Bangers . . .)

Well, anyone have anything more to add about cracking the kielbasa code?

Matvey,

If I can fit some homemade (domashi) Slivovicka and Ung County vinka in my suitcase without going over the airline weight limit, I'll bring some to the Kolbassa/Kovbasa/Kielbasa "Cook Out Picnic Extravaganza" to be held at a later date in Altoona'shchina!

Smachnoho!

Ung

Cracking the "kielbasa code" is always ongoing. Pieces are always being found by true kielbasyologists throughout the world. So never think that we must end this quest. As the great slavish philosopher Janko Cesnak said, "Kde nieto kielbasa, ide v�etko do �padku" translated as, "Where there is no kielbasa, everything is headed for collapse." Keep this in mind next time that you do not find kielbasa in your local supermarket.

Maybe somebody can research some of the ancient prophecies concerning this.

Ray

Ray, very intriguing and encouraging. As I have hit my fell asleep and can't go back episode this evening I will sit in deep contemplation over your above post.
The question is, is Kunzler Kielbasa really Kielbasa. I'm leaning toward categorizing it as an fake imitation kielbasa.
If Kunzler Kielbasa is not actually Kielbasa and only an imitation then my local supermarket indeed has no true kielbasa in stock.

Then you must heed "Kde nieto kielbasa, ide v�etko do �padku". It is indeed the sign of the times. But it is never too late to reverse the course.

On the other hand, if Mr. Kunzler http://www.kunzler.com wants to denounce his German ancestry, and embrace his Slavic roots, then Kunslowski's (his real name) product will have more acceptance. Word has it that he came from a Polish/German border town.

Besides, what songs has he produced about his products? None.

Ray

I will heed "Kde nieto kielbasa, ide v�etko do �padku."
Yes, Mr.Kunzler is really Kunslowski and he has produced no songs about his products. I read an interview he gave the Harrisburg paper about ten years ago. He said that he sought to take the "ethnicity" out of food and make it truly American. He felt that if he didn't produce songs about his food (too ethnic) and he changed his name to appear more German (since German names are accepted and anything Slavic is just too ethnic). He figured that if he didn't make songs, changed his name and didn't even ADD kielbasa to his website except for a tiny little info on it then no one would really remember that kielbasa is Slavic in nature and only think it was a American product with no ethnic ties. But no matter how you change the name, the language, your last name and alter the ingredients with American food service industry preservatives the heart of the Kielbasa still is Slavic.
Changing the last name/language from Slavic to German/American and appearing to cut the kielbasa's ties with the old country doesn't make the kielbasa the all-American sausage.
Mr. "Kunzler" said that by taking (or the appearance of taking away those ties) ethnic and old-world ties away from the Kielbasa would encourage those who weren't Slavic in the USA to embrace and buy lots of Kielbasa.

There are, of course, many varieties of this delectable sausage (some more delectable than others), and most of them are connected with one or another specific locale. The real kolbassy mavens swear that they can tell from the taste where the kolbassy comes from.

The best I ever had was said to come from Drohobych.

Fr. Serge

My resource when it comes to kolbasa:

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/index.html

Alexandr

If you want, I'll volunteer to make real kolbasa for our shindig. None of that bought processed schmata. TONS of garlic!! Hopi Shupi!

Alexandr

Thanks for posting that link - I've been looking for recipes for Italian sausage!

Fr. Serge

Woohoo! Thank you Alexandr!

I second OP's woohoo!

However, I think the Kielbasa Code is starting to crack our Orthodox Pyrohy. He's becoming more of a wild conspiracy theorist by the day!

Fr. Serge, I think you're the luckiest of us all -- what I wouldn't give to have instant access to all the black and white pudding a lad could eat!

I wonder... if you make a sausage with oats and pig's blood, then add garlic, can it be considered Irish Kielbasa? An Ceilmhas Earinnach, perhaps?

A 11 page thread on kielbasa...amazing

Beer is also needed...

james

I'll bring some Yuengling!

You are welcome to my share of the black and white puddings!

An tAth. Serge

You're venturing up this way!
Where's Bob, have you found anything out?

BOB's right here.

Is Saturday or Sunday better? Or a week day?

BOB

How 'bout Lakemont/Boyertown Park in August? We can eat Kolbassi and then ride the rides? Anybody up for that idea?

Ung

Works for me. Be aware that there is an admission fee for each person in addition to the cost of the pavilion. At Legion Park there is only the pavilion fee. In Legion Park, we could play softball by comparison.

BOB

Alexandr:

Let's see what the brethren want as far as a venue and we'll get a date set so you can start stuffing casings.

BOB

james:

hawk has volunteered to start brewing, Alexandr volunteered to start stuffing casings--now all we need to know is Saturday or Sunday, and softball or rides.

BOB

Saturday sounds good doesn't it?

Saturday works for me. How say you all? And how many are coming? Send me pms so I get a head count.

BOB

You do realise, I hope ,that there will be a demand for PHOTOS - lots of them - afterwards.

Thoses of us who have absolutely no way of getting there will not be satisfied other than with lots of pics of the occasion

OLS:

Do you really want pictures of a bunch of guys and gals overeating kielbassa and the other things that make a picnic? Especially if there is a softball game and we're all sweaty?

Now that we've got cyberspace, what we really need is that transporter that Captain Kirk had. "Beam me over."

BOB

YES!!

See - it's not just me that says we want pics

ROFLOL with tears in my eyes.

You two are a lot of fun. It's too bad you can't be there, too.

On another note, I found some great potato salad and baked beans at Sam's Club the other day--great strong flavors; just like homemade. Rather than try to reinvent the wheel, I think I'll just call them for about 20 pounds of each.

BOB

I'm getting very hungry.

We can always avoid pictures and skip right on to a webcast. Then we can all be there together, even if we're in the old country.

Do we have any particular Saturday in mind? Or is it just luck of the draw. I need to get on the sauerkraut.

Wait a minute; I thought this was being held in the old country!

hawk

domilsean:

How about either August 2 or 9?


hawk:

yeh, the part of the country most people have left behind: Central PA.

BOB

Ung:

Since you and I are the only two still on this thread, I guess we'll have to make all the decisions. Here's my short list of picnic ingredients:

kielbassa
sauerkraut
dark mustard
rolls
potato salad (Sam's Club)
baked beans (Sam's Club
watermelon
corn on the cob
melted butter
domilsean's homemade pickles
paper plates plastic tableware
plastic glassware
garbage bags
ice charcoal
lighter fluid
frisbies
softball & bat
bottled water & soda
beer

Thoughts?

BOB

Pavloosh:

Are you close to the place in Sheandoah?

BOB

domilsean:

So's mine. So when do we get going?

BOB

marusia:

Will you bring the rye bread?

BOB

Alexandr:

You're on.

BOB

I guess I'm here talking to myself. So adios until tomorrow.

BOB

If it's August 9, perhaps the se�ora, baby John Paul and myself can make it. My wife likes kielbasa.

Shall we include Amerikanskyj "Burgers" as well as Kolbassi?

Ung

Ung:

Whatever the group wants. But I thought this was a kielbassa "throwdown" where people were bringing competing recipes to crown a winner?

BOB

Bob,

That sounds very volatile and explosive! Should we notify the Blair County Disaster Response Team in case there is a Methane explosion? We better designate a restricted smoking area!

Ung

Well, Kowalonek's in Shenandoah has kielbo-burgers!

I might be able to get to Shenandoah before August 9.

I'll call tomorrow and see if I can get a pavillion at Legion park for Aug 9th.

BOB

Yay, and Domilsean is required to come. I mean required.

that sounds as if it's a command

Ok, I like the idea. This one I can make since Legion Park is only an hour away from my house. Did we decide on August 2 or 9th? I have Cub Scout camp on the 2nd through the 6th. But August 9th I can make. But do what's best for the crowd. I'm not up to making anything homemade in large quantities. Of course, I guess it all depends on how large a crowd we are talking about. I can make some pirohi, depending on the size of the crowd and the date. Seriously, count me in if I can make it! I have my mother's recipe for holupki for 50 in the Holy Trinity Monastary Cookbook, circa 1960! I could try that, I suppose.

Tim

Am I reading that correctly ?

wow give that man huge [ but very gentle , and certainly not on the recently fixed bit of his back ] pat on the back for having the courgae to go and join you mad folk.

Even more do I demand photos of the event

I like the 9th too. I can then obey Pyrohy's command of attendance.

Sadly, Legion Park is booked through July and August. Just got the word today that there are no open Saturdays. We'd have to book much, much farther in advance to get a date in the summer.

Any ideas?

BOB

How about Delgrosso's Park in Tipton?

Ung

Yes, you did read right--I'll be happy to attend if I can and bring something good to munch on. Don't worry, we'll send a toast to everyone who can't attend and eat something for you, in your honor. Just name your food of choice and one of us will be happy to eat it for you. Did I say eat? Heck, it will go down so fast "inhale" is a better word!

Tim

DelGrosso's in Tipton is not a bad idea. I lived in Altoona for a bit but it was a while ago (circa 1990) and can't remember if there are any other parks that have pavilions for rent. I think Bob is the best one for that since he's local.

Oh, and Orthodox P, he's local too.

Tim

Bob, thank you for checking for us!
DelGrosso's will probably be a stretch as everyone gets a pavilion there for company picnics, school picnics, family reunions, and so on. It would probably be hard, but it's worth a call.

I know another place that requires registration. I doubt it would be booked, I'll call.

There are other places too.
Canoe Creek State Park has pavilions.

There are a few pavilions in the Bellwood park.

Do we have to have a pavilion?

Never thought of Canoe Creek. A pavillion is good in case it starts to rain us out. We do need some place to grill.

I'm out of town doing FD CE seminars until Monday so whatever you get together is fine with me.

BOB

I was lying in bed last night and thought of Canoe Creek. I'm glad someone else did too. How many people are expected and may I be so bold as to invite myself and potentially my family? (Three--me, myself and a ten year old son who can eat Kolbassi till the cows come home!)

Tim

I never would have guessed a thread based on this topic would go on for 10 pages...

Byzantines talking about food for ten pages surprises you? It sure doesn't surprise me!

Tim

Nor me - after all during Fast periods all topics turn to food

Is the 'teletransporter' going to be working?

OLS and I will surely need it to be on time

I was just thinking today, it had been a while since I fried up a good ol' pan of kraut and keilbasi Won't do anygood to fry it up, neither of us can eat it

Tim, I think children should be encouraged.

More beer for us adults!

Canoe Crik doesn't have a pavilion for August 9th or the next weekend. I checked on their website.
And remember if it held on Commonwealth Park Ground alcohol is forbidden by order of the General Assembly. For real, you can't possess alcoholic beverage on Pennsylvania State Park land.

Yes, a thread this long on kielbasa, it happens.

I have lots of hayfields! And approx 11 bazillion Eastern Churches within rock throwing distance. And alcoholic liquids of any sort are positively encouraged, if not outright mandated!

Alexandr

You had me at "positively encouraged."

I'm am in full agreement.

Woohoo! Anyone else like Alexandr's idea?

Still too far - and I still demand photos

I hope when I return from Karpats'ka-Rus' on June 27th the date for this "Velika Kolbassi Zabava" will be set. Remember, I'm bringing back some good ol'fashioned Slivovica for this shindig!

S'Bohom i smachnoho!

Ung

8428 views on this thread! See people are interested in cracking the kielbasa code.

Let's go to Alexandr's place. Works for me.

BOB

Indeed, let us go to Alexandr's.

Anyone? Still up for it?

Excuse me if I am asking a dumb question, but I have not read every post on this thread. Where is Alexander's place? If it's close, I would love to come. If it involved long distances and lots of money, I can't make it.

Is Alexander's place something like Hernando's HIdeaway? (reference--a song and dance number from the Broadway musical "The Pajama Game." ) Hernando's Hideaway became a popular song in the mid to late fifties. I can send an mp3 to anyone who wants to hear it. It's quite cute and funny, in a fifties kind of way. The song is about a nightclub/restaurant where people go to meet and flirt.

Tim

I think it's more like Fernando's Hideway, in that it is mah-vel-ous.

OK, poor puns aside, where IS Alexandr's?

I don't know, is anyone really interested in this picnic? I mean we kind of need to get something rolling here.

Bratija,

I just returned from Staryj Kraj. I consummed more "Salo" and alcohol in five days than I have had in the last three years! I have brought back authentic "Carpathian" Brinza cheese, Hriby (mushrooms) and distilled wine spirits (domasha of course). I would still be interested in our "Piknik". I volunteer to be chief "Salo" and pork "Shaslik" chef!

Ung

We still need a place to picnic.

BOB

How about Prince Gallitzin State Park??

Ung

I'm up for any good place we can get some of the good people here together--have cooler, will travel.

BOB

State Parks in PA forbid alcohol. Let me call one more place tomorrow and see if I can still book us a spot.

Brat' Matvey,

Any luck?

Ung

Does anyone have an objection to a picnic in an early September weekend?

I didn't want to try for a time that would give a problem to anyone on the Julian calendar fasting after the middle of August so i didn't inquite about times in Hollidaysburg in the latter two weeks of August.

BOB

I object!

Actually, I'll be "indisposed" for most weekends starting in September.

Just asking. Wouldn't want you not to be able to be there to judge who has the best kielbasa.

BOB

Okay guys, this thread has gone on long enough!

First, kilebasa is neither Rusyn, Ukrainian or Polish--it is....CHINESE, okay?!?!?

Secondly, I hereby decree that you must all settle on a day and a place to meet...Bob has been more than gracious, AND serious, so please get your acts together and help him out, or the thread will be closed forever, and you will have lost your chance!!!

DECIDE on a date, gentlemen!!! (sheesh, and they say that women are indecisive)

And by the way, we expect to see LOTS of photos......

Alice, Moderator

ALICE:

Aren't you glad we didn't expand the discussion to include which been goes best with kielbasa?

BOB

Ok, it is very important as to the origins of kielbasa. you're just jealous alice because it isn't greek in origin

Bob, we must make sure that Domilsean will be able to come!

Settle on a date, I'm out of the area for a few more days.

I'm more than serious, I tried calling a place but they haven't called me back yet. I'll call them here when I get back to the area,

LOL!!!

Okay, I deserved that...this is important and I understand your reprimand...

...but then what else should I expect from someone named after a food!

Alice...or....

maybe I should call myself 'Orthodox Souvlaki' instead !!!

ALICE:

For all the serious subjects here I think it's a hoot that we can devote twelve plus pages to a discussion of who makes the best kielbasa and whence its origin.

What Greek food can we debate next?

BOB

Matt,

Does Bland Park/Del Grosso Park have a picnic area?

Ung

Ung:

Yes they do, but there is really no place to do anything except use one of the pavillions unless the gorup just wants to eat and ride the rides. And I'm not sure about their rules about alcohol.

BOB

You can drink alcohol at a rented pavilion at DelGrosso's
(the family owned amusement park formerly known as Bland's Park), but getting one isn't exactly a cake walk at the last moment. I have one place to call back since I'm back around regular internet service, home base, etc..

Hmmm good question? Is that your favorite Greek Food? If so go for the name change

Actually both the Greeks and the Chinese make very good varieties of sausage. And souvlaki is one of my favorite foods.

Meanwhile, please wish me luck - I'm going to try making Italian sausage.

Fr. Serge

Ok, here is the deal. August 9 at Reservoir Park, Tyrone PA we can get a pavilion. We can go about this several ways.

We can just cross our fingers and hope there is an open pavilion and use it that day (only to show up and not find one open).

Or we can reserve it for 35 dollars. Right now there out of 17 pavilions no. 1,2,9, 10A and 10b are reserved for August 9th.

The last the last few in the park never have reservations. I actually have never seen all the pavilions being used at the same time but I don't think we want people driving from Pittsburgh to have no pavilion available when we show up.

I'll make an appointment with one Mr. Kovalonek, to obtain several of his kielbasas then.

Cool. Bring it on! Let's get a tally of who is bringing what and let me know if we should for sure secure a picnic pavilion via reservation.

Dag nabit, I have to work that Saturday! Youinz guys are still welcome to have my "Brindza", providing someone will be traveling from "Velku Pitts'burg'shchina".

I can't change my August schedule because of other employee's have scheduled vacation days, which will allow me to have five full days off for Labor Day Uniontowns'kyj Otpust. Oh well, shmachnoje and na zdrovichko to all!

Ung

OP:

Should we have everyone send you or me a pm staing if he/she is available? And what is the cut-off for this so we have an idea?

BOB

I wish I lived much closer to you folks!

Just made a batch of Italian sausage from the recipe on that web-site. Delicious!

Fr. Serge

Ahh... Father Serge, you are quite the gourmet cook!!!

Did you make a sweet Italian sausage or hot Italian sausage?

In Christ,
Alice

Would sausage made by a Ukrainian still be able to be considered "kielbasa"?

or is it a banger?

Yes people need to start making arrangements soon.

I planned to make hot sausage but it turned out sweet. Next time, more cayenne pepper!

Fr. Serge

Whoever wants to come please pm either Theophan or me, the Orthodox Pyrohy.

I'll do you one better, I'll publicly announce my intention to come. It's like letter of intent day.

It looks like it could be just me and you. Like what 18000 hits on this thread and twenty pages for me and you to make plans. Haha, just think we could have saved all of this and actually communicated via phone. Is anyone else coming?

August 9 at Reservoir Park, Tyrone PA????

I'll be there.

Alexandr

Orthodox Pyrohy,
Glory to Jesus Christ!
I am reminded of a cartoon in the "Dilbert" strip. A young trainee is reporting the success of a conference call:
"The Conference call was a huge success".
"Three out of eighteen people were available and only one of them forgot to call in".
Boss: "So it was a phone call between two people"?
Trainee: "It would have been if they hadn't used the mute buttons".
Deacon El

OP:

Looks like four including Alexandr and me. Who else?

BOB

Four are better than none,

so I would consider it 'a plan',

to go there and have fun!

No one has sent me a pm.

Nor me.

OK, what time are we meeting? Who is bringing what?

BOB

I'm not ashamed to be meeting with yunz, so I eschewed the PM and just publicly announced my intention to attend.

I'll be in eastern PA this weekend and I'll pick up some of Kovalonek's kielbasa. I'll also make pickles.

Is everyone bringing someone? Children? How many people total?

I'll pick up some ice, potato salad, baked beans, maybe pasta salad. But I need to know if we're feeding the five thousand or just a handful.

BOB

"Man who stick head in oven have baked bean."

Father Serge:

Father bless!!

Good one!! I'll have to put that in my database of clean stories and sayings.

BOB

So far I'm coming stag. I decided to look "stag" up, and interestingly enough, the dictionaries agree that in noun form, stag is a great word for a man going to a gathering without a female companion. However, adjectivally, it's crude. Oh, connotations, how you make life so interesting!

Maybe I'll see if there's a young lady I can bring along, though. You never know.

Bob, probably just me, you and who you bring, Alexandr and who he brings, Marc and that's it. So it shouldn't be hard to co-ordinate.
I think the alcohol prohibition of the park may hinder attendance.
Now if the gathering was at Raystown Lake we could have beer.

So I can bring whatever. Seriously we need a head count.
August 9th Resevior Park Tyrone, PA pavilion to be determined in accordance, say you about 12-1 o'clock or so?

Make it so.

Do we need to pay the deposit still?

Yes we do, however there are four or so that never get reserved. You can use any of the pavilions period as long as someone else isn't using it. It is just that to make sure you have it you pay the fee. And in all my life I've never seen all what, 20 pavilions being used on any given day.

To those that aren't posting or lurking that live in the area
come to
Reservoir Park Tyrone, PA at about noon to one Sat. August 9, 2008. We can make this happen easily and if no one in the area that posts here wants to commit well I have a rather long list of contacts of awesomely nice folk that are church minded people on my cell phone that will come and bring food and have fun fun fun.
We can then go to the Orthodox Church about 15 minutes from the park for Vespers at 6pm. The ride to the church is gorgeous as it is all woods on route 453 for almost the entire 15 minutes.
One more suggestion would be that everyone that comes brings some food so that we can donate it to the St. Vincent de Paul food bank in Altoona, PA. I would take it up on the Tuesday (they're open for donations Tue. and Thur. only) following the picnic so canned items would be the best at that point.