www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Sign of the Cross and Mass

James,

You are absolutely right. When I pray the Hours, I pray them in Latin, and I was doing a quick mental translation, and experienced a "senior moment". Sorry, folks.

Alex,

Thanks for that detail. I'll incorporate it into my practice. I did not know when the practice originated -- in retrospect, it makes a lot of sense!

Thanks to both of you.

Michael

Dear Jakub,

St Benedict also prescribes that versicle with little Sign of the Cross to be said three times when a Brother is assigned to read from a spiritual book out loud when the monastery is taking its meals.

Alex

Marina, I find that an interesting statement. I would have thought that blessing ourselves when we are being blessed is a visual reception of receiving the blessing. (If that makes any sence)

During the Liturgy when Father blesses, everyone blesses themselves. I don't understand.

I agree, it has been very educational and interesting

Alex,

My gears haven't been engaging correctly for a while...a re-alignment is needed...

james

Alex,

At evensong the small sign of the cross is made over the lips when the priest intones: "O Lord, open thou our lips." The regular sign of the cross is then made at "O God, make speed to save us (O God, come to our assistance). It's also made at the start of the Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis, again, at the end of the Apostles Creed and finally at the end of evensong when the priest intones, "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost be with us all evermore." In the parish I attend, that is usually left off of evensong, since 90% of the time, benediction of the Blessed Sacrament follows immediately. Instead, the priest sings "Let us bless the Lord." the response of which is: "Thanks be to God." Then recto tono "May the souls of the faithful departed rest in peace. Amen." The sign of the cross accompanies both of these.

John K

Jakub was right earlier.
In the Latin church, the sign of the cross is made over the lips when "O Lord, open my lips, ..." is prayed. This is prayed at the first prayer (from the breviary or the Office) of the day (be that the Office of Readings, or the Office of Morning Prayer). It is not called anything in particular (e.g. "little sign of the cross" or similar).

Thereafter, the sign of the cross is made in the Latin prayers of the hours:
- at the beginning and end of each hour;
- at the beginning of each Gospel canticle (Benedictus, Magnificat, Nunc Dimittus).

If a sermon is preached at Morning or Evening Prayer or in the Office of Readings, there is no sign of the cross indicated (nor in practice) before or after this sermon.

The sign of the cross in the Latin mass before and after a sermon are a carry-over from an early mis-understanding that the mass was being stopped for a while, while the priest or deacon preached, and then restarted. Liturgy professors have for at least two centuries been trying to break future priests of the habit.

In the current Roman Mass, no sign of the cross is called for by the laity except at the beginning, small sign at the Gospel, and at the end. The only extra sign of the cross the priest is called to make is if he uses Eucharistic prayer I, at "let us be filled with every grace and blessing." All others made in the Mass prior to Vatican II have been suppressed.

John,

Do you think with all the work that Pope Benedict is doing that the use of the Sign of the Cross will become more prevelent in the Latin Mass?

Pani Rose-

I am not a liturgical expert, but I believe that for the sign of the cross to be restored into the post Vatican II Mass, there would have to be a new version of the new rite issued. Not sure if the conference of bishops of a particular country can authorize it, or if it would have to come from Rome, to officially sanction and require return of it to the places where it was, in parts retained in the revised liturgy.

John K

A greek Orthodox priest once taught me that it is rather presumptuous to make the sign of the cross when the priest blesses you--in essence blessing yourself when the priest blesses you. But the Western custom is to make the sign when receiving a blessing; it this case it is not considered "blessing oneself."

Marina and Pani, in my church I've been told that if the priest blesses us while holding anything in his hands we are to cross ourselves (not sure why), otherwise some make the same argument the Greek priest makes and simply bow while being blessed. Others always cross themselves while receiving the priest's blessing.

Now that I'm more accustomed to when it is ,for want of a better word, obligatory to make the sign of the cross, I find myself crossing myself whenever I feel moved to do so. When in a Latin Church I cross myself as usual (if it seems that it may be disruptive then I make small crosses)and don't make the smaller crosses.
What do other byzcaths do when in latin churches?(At some point I know I'll be attending latin churches in Spain and/or Latin America and I assume small crosses would be better there.
When do you cross yourself in public?
Do you cross yourself at any point during the Jesus prayer?

Interesting theread, thanks.

Indigo

The proper 'Spanish' way to cross yourself is to form a small cross with your thumb and index finger, letting the other three fingers stick out. Make the sign of the cross the Western way (using the middle finger to touch your forehead, etc.) and then kiss the small cross you made with your thumb and index finger.

You can cross yourself any time you pass by a Catholic Church, pass by a camposanto (i.e. cemetery), pass by an outdoor religious statue, pass a holy day or funeral procession, when someone dead is mentioned, or when someone curses in public.

If you make a promise to somone one, say 'te lo juro' (I vow to you) and then make the small cross with thumb and index finger and kiss it, and afterward lift the small cross ever-so-slightly into the air moving it away from your mouth.

When you enter a church, after you have blessed yourself with Holy Water, kneel down and using the small cross (thumb and index finger) trace a small cross on your forehead, then on your upper lip, your lower lip, and then a larger one over your entire mouth end to end while saying: +Por la se�al de la santa cruz, de +nuestros +enemigos +L�branos Se�or Dios nuestro. (By the sign of the Holy Cross, from our enemies, deliver us O Lord!) Then make the full sign of the cross as mentioned above: +En el nombre del Padre y del Hijo y del Esp�ritu Santo. Amen. (In the name of the Father...)

If you want to cross yourself more often during the Mass here are some additional places to the usual ones to do it in both the Modern & Traditional Roman Rite: 1.) At the absolution after the Confiteor (I confess to God Almighty...) (or sometimes the Kyrie eleison in the Modern Rite); 2.) at the last line of the Gloria in excelsis (Glory be to God); 3.) at the last line of the Credo (Nicene Creed); 4.) at the Benedictus (Blessed is he...), which follows the Sanctus (Holy, holy, holy); 5.) at the elevations of the Host and the Chalice.

�Buen viaje!

Dear Byzantophile,

Very nice - thank you for that comprehensive explanation! Barcelona is one of my favourite cities and there are shrines aplenty which one may venerate.

One can even aggregate, wherever needed . . .

I think all RC's should just return to their hallowed, ancient traditions (yes, I mean Tridentine) and let Rome know which one you prefer!

Alex

Does that include me?

Dear Dr Eric,

I would expect you to be first in line!!

Alex

So I shouldn't switch?