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Joined: Aug 2006
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Nathan,


I think you are right in your assessment that the religion was originally spread with the sword, that there are moderates and extremist, and that economic conditions play a part in fueling the jihadism.

I also like Terry's advice about keeping discussion with Muslims on theology.

This young Somali Man seemed very enthusiastic and convinced about Ron Paul. I suppose if you come from a context of tyranny, Paul's limited government message has great appeal.

Blessings,

Lance

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I have great respect for Islam (or more appropriately al-Islam) and there is much that is commendable in it, but what is commendable in it is taken from Christianity. If you sit down and examine Islam you will find several contradictions between what is taught in the Quran and what is practiced by just about every Muslim.

If you want some good cannon fodder, research three things: 1.) the life of Mohammed and how his life stacked up against the principles of Islam; 2.) the Muslim view of the afterlife; and 3.) the differences among the various sects of Islam.

I'd recommend picking up a copy of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Islam. Any well-catechized Catholic will have no trouble identifying Islam's weak points by reading this.

If the young man you spoke to wants a religion that is "less white" point him to the Ethiopian Church, which pre-dates Islam.

[Linked Image]

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I can't agree with Islam's belief that Mohammed was the last Prophet. Jesus Christ is God and this cannot be denied. Islam won't accept this.

In the Koran, there are (allegedly) 99 words for Allah, but Father is not one of them.

I believe radical Islam is not the majority of Islam's adherents, but they can do considerable damage.

I cannot separate the history of Islam from Islam itself. The history of Islam speaks for itself. The forces of Islam fought wars of conquest, conquering much territory - much more than it holds today.

My six day old baby boy is the descendant of the nations of Queen Isabella and King Jan Sobieski. That says it all.

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LET me make a correction, MR. Clean.

Islam doens't have 99 words for God, it has 99 namesfor God. Obviously Father is not one of them, because Father isn't even a name of God in Christianity.

Any mroe than me calling my own Father "Father" is his name, or a Priest beign addressed as "Father" is a statement that his name is Father.

The title of Father implies a progenetor or authority over one, who guides oens growht and development, and helps usher one into the world. But it is not a name.

Now, most ( but remarkabely nto all) Muslism woudl also deny the Fathership of God, thinkign it render shim too Human, but the basic concept behind we as Christaisn callign him Father is that he is ur Creator, and most Muslims would accept this, even shoudl they not share the termenology.

This said, although I disagree with Islam, I do not see it as the greatest evil the world has ever known, and I can think upon Islamic hisotyr with less of a slant int he direction fo dseeign them as Conquering Barbarians.

It is true that much f Islamic territory was conquered, but so too was most of the ORman EMoire, yet the ROman Empire is not known soley for its COnqueast of lands, and once the land was COnquered, the inhabitants where given full Roman CItesenship.

Although modenr ISlamic Republcis are often dictaatorial, in the past, many Isamic Regemes where acutlaly not so stern and oppressive as their modern counterparts, and, although I woudl not praise the Ottoman Empire, or much of Islamic Europe's invasion and conqueast, I woudl sya that often Christains where allowed ot live in Muslim occupied areas with only moderate inconveneince or the itme period, such as payign of a tax, and in most cases beign ineligable for public office. ( SUrprisingly, though, this isn't even true of all ISlamic contorled areas, and sme did allow Christaisn to advance, provided they posed no threat to the Islamic identity of the land.)

Now, it is true that Muslims conquered territory, but they did more htna just conwquer, and we shoudl be midnful fo this.


All of this said, if I coudl I would convert every last Muslim to Christ, for this is the truth, and the way ot their Salvation.

I see ISlam as I do any other HEresy, with only one Unique mark abotu it. Most of the Heresies of old emerged from direclty within the Churhc herself, such as Arianism, from a PReist in Alexandria, or Montanism, which stared alsoo form A PResbyter.

Islam was inspired by CHristainity, and the bulk of the Koran is nothign but Muhammad retelling either Biblcial narratives ( with some modificaiton in many of them) or copying Christain virues and expandign upon them, with mixed results form a Christain perspective.

The difference is, Muhammad was neither a member of the clergy within the Churhc, nor a layman within Christendom, and had, ot myknowledge, nto even been Baptised for the remisison of his sins.

He as from without the Church, not form Within.

But his ideas emergd from Christainity, and had their been no Christendom, there woudl have been no Islam.

Thus, Islam is simply another Heresy.

And the correction to all Heresy is orthodox teahcing.


Mormonism, in my mind, falls intot he same category, it is a HEretical movement no differnt than Arianism or Mancheinism.

THus I approahc Mormons as simply misguided by Heresy, and ISlam I appriach the same way, though I am mindful fo the sdistioncion. Mormonism, Arianism, Montanism, all emerged from direclty within the Chrisain context, and all consider themselves Christain, and share a good deal withthe Christain culture. Islam, although inspitred by Christendom, and with its ideas copied form Christendom, started form without, and has a cultural basis that is not intrinsically Christian.


It is interestign, though, that both the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, and the Prophet of Mormonism, Joeseph Smith, Jr., taugh thtat Jesu and God where distinct beigns. Although Smith taugh that Jesus as also divine, he taught that we coudl acheive the same sttus, and that Jeuss is our Elder Brother. Muhammad taught also that Jeuss wa slike us, but had no concept of Humanity prgressing o a divine state through Eternal progression, and God was transcendant and above all.

Still, there are parrallels within Mormonism and Islam, and with Muhammad and Joseph Smith Jr., and if you do a bit of research, you will see common strands in all Heresy, and common strands that show hwo they emerge.

To sclose, though, I will say that Islam is not the greatest evil in our modern world, modern proggressive thought and Humanism are. Though Humanists dny such links, and clam their philosophy has doen no evil, the Philosophy of Humanism and is predesessor ideologies which emerged form the Enlightenment that place all value on what thye narrowly defien as Human reason and a need for liberation fromt he old order to create a society centred aroudn mankind, and his needs, has given us the rise of SOcialism, Communism, and the ideal that the State should be the final arbitor of all things.

By placing the ultimate emphais on mankind, and sayign mankind must put its effort sonly into meeting the needs of humanity today, andnot on a Diety, they remove God, and the focus is usually not on meetign Hunanities spiritual or evn Psycological needs, but percieved needs, which eventually grows to inlude wants and desirs, all of hwich woudl be accepted.

THe focus is also on the demand to meet the needs and demands of everyone, and yet findign a way for ociety to hold togather and remain unified. Since Humanism has removed traditional religiosu support, and the traditional societal values, there remains nohting fo the society to use as a common refernece to buld a standard code of conduct from which peoel know how to behave, and so a new one must be established, and usually is in the form of the progresive mroal codes, as taught to us by the State. The State also asusmes the responcibikity of carignfor each citesen and meetign their needs, thus replacing everythign form Churhces to charities.

And the State usually meets the needs of the mases by means of wealth redictibution, and the Govenrment gainign contorle of the means of manufacture and distirbution, as well as taking money form the workers to finance social plans who are ostentatiosuly foudned ot help everyone in need btu int he end become large, soulelss beurocracies that end up dehumanising everyone, as th hwole of society is seen as a mass that th State must regulate, and thepeopel beocme dependant upon the state which tells them what to do and who grants them their needs.


This is the greaest evil in our time, not ISlam.

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Oh, and sorry for the rambling post above.

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I whole heartedly concur. The greatest evil facing us at the moment is secular humanism. It is a war between those who believe in a supernatural world and those who don't.

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Actually, it is was simple Athiesm, hst woudln't be as bad.

Humanism, however, is not mere Athesm, and comes with a hot of other presumptions that do not merley preclude Supernatural invovlement, and goes well beyind mere naturalism.


Modern Secular Humanism als emphasises the meetign of humanitys needs today as a cheif end, and defines mankinds needs in terms of a vauge ideal of progress and development of full potential, as well as mateiral security.

And, it always inclues int he ideal of prigress and developign oens full potential the ability to expeince what gives one pleasure, and so the emphasis o the devaluation of a traditional marirage structure and chastity, becase they are seen as constraints on one pursuing that which woudl give one pleausre. Althoguh most Humaists nowadays woudl see Marirgae as an agreed ot contract and adultery as wrong, they see nothign wrogn with concentung adults giving eahc other seual pleasure if neither party is so attatcked.

And this is merley one example. Muhc of Secular Huanism is bse dupon meeting mans desire for pleasure for the sole end of gratifyign man, which is short sighted, and often dangerous, but fits their beleif in meeting mans needs today.

Likewise, the concept within Secular Humanism that is th emost dangerous is that of giving the state, which represents the people, the ultimate power to make the moral and cultural bonds that link us, which is created by the state in a fashion tht is often arbitrary, exceot that it flows formt h same Humanist presumptions.

The State then becides for us what is and is not moral, and what is and what is not expected of us in society.

Then, the State is given controle of the wealth of the society, to distribute it to all, so that everyoen has enouh money and rescurses to live adequately. This is done int he name of the peopel as a whole, sicne the Govenrment in a Humanist framework always represents the people.

This means that in order for me to get food, shelter, medical care, and money to buy anyhtign else with, I'd need to go tot he State to provide this fr me, and the State woudl ultimatley be my supplier, and I'd be limite din what I get to what they had to offer, as well as, oftne, restircitosn on how it is to be used bse don what they have decided.

This means i become wholly dependant upon the State for my existance and continued lifestyle, which is often dictated by the State.

Thus, the Stste contorles the educaitn I recieve, the entertainment I watch, and the amount of money I get.

The STate also uses a lot fo the redistributed ealth to builld masive social progrmmes to ensure htis contorle and ot delegate thoseneeds.


This is te root of SOcialism, and Humanism is in the end the Philosophy from which the assumption f socialism began.

I have never met a Humanist who did not have such inclinaitons, because it is inherant in their philoosphy.

I have met plenty of Ahtits, though, that do not beleive int he above.

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While far from being an expert on Islam, I think there is something to St. John of Damascus' recognition of Islam as a Christian Heresy. Further Islam has always struck me as a running away from the freedom of Christ back to a law, and again therefore something of a heresy.

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I would have ot agree wth St. John of Damascus.

I find ISlam a Heresy, but a Unique one. It is a Heresy from without. Most Heresies emerged from within Christianity, but Muhammad himself was never a Christian. His ideals, principles, and teachigns are clearly of Christian Origin, but they also display some oddities that came from outside of Christendom, and in and of itsself Islam emerged external to Christianity dispite the obvious borrowing of theological concepts and doctrinal and moral teachings, some of which Muhammad expanded.

In this way, even Mormonism is not like Islam, as, though both started with the emergence of a Climed Prophet, Smith came form a Culture thta was stringly Christian and considered himself a Christian, unlike Muhammad, and smiths ideas only gradulaly lead into strange facets, whereas Muhammads always ocntainedd some.


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Hey there, Lance,

I think Islam is another religion. I don't believe in parts of it, but I think it can succeed in bringing people closer to God for those who practice it.

I think Islam believes that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I think they believe that their victory over all others (including Christians) is Divinely assured.

I think Islam has been the opponent and often the enemy of Christianity. I think Islam is still the opponent --and, in some quarters, it is still the enemey-- of Christianity.

I think Islam is a dubious partner against secularism because I think Islam will always be calculating how to convert or destroy Christianity. Put another way, I think Muslims firmly believe that we Christians are wrong; I think Muslims believe that secular humanism is proof that we are wrong; and I think Muslims believe that they just need to wait for Christianity to die out -- maybe with a little help-- and they will pick up the pieces.

I think ordinary Muslims can be good neighbors, but I think radical Islam is one of the greatest threats to the world today.

I think that normal Muslims are willing to work with normal Christians to stop radical Muslims.

But, I think that all the Muslims (including the normal ones) will always be calculating about how to ultimately beat us.

In short, I think Islam is 600 years behind us. In the year 1408, I think a lot of Christians felt and believed like many Muslims think and feel today. Maybe things will change in the future for Islam, given enough time and modernization. And maybe not.

-- John

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http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/438/46/

Great blog by a great man. He is, in my idea, a good Muslim.

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Islam is just another Christian heresy, and is actually a death cult.

Harsh words, yes, but one should separate Muslims from the teachings, I mean the ACTUAL teachings of Islam.

There are many good people who are Muslims, but Islam is about conquest, suppression and death.

Anyone who objectively reads Muslim history, even from Muslim sources (which are highly whitewashed) cannot help but come to that objective conclusion.

I do NOT think that 'normal' Muslims are willing to work with normal Christians to stop radical Muslims. They won't even speak out against them.

Just my two cents, based on experience.

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Hi,

I think Islam is an important religion and those who profess it are to be respected.

I think, historically, Islam was a key factor in the development of civilization, just as Judaism and Christianity.

Many good things have come from peoples in which Islam is the dominant religion. Contributions from Islamic societies to math, chemistry, medicine, literature, among others, are invaluable.

Many bad things have come from peoples in which Islam is the dominant religion... which can also be said about peoples in which Christianity is the dominant religion and radical Islam is not much worse than fundamentalist Christianity (including Catholicism and Orthodoxy), when it comes to cause pain and suffering.

I think I have much more in common with a devout Muslim than with a lukewarm Catholic, especially when this "Catholic" agrees with the fundamental postmodern assumtion that there is no objective truth and there is no objective good or evil.

Yes, nowadays it has become fashionable among some Muslims to hijack their religion to justify unspeakable atrocities. However, we must not forget that a few decades ago there was a similar movement among some Evangelical Christians to justify the bombing of abortion clinics and another one, a few centuries ago, which made heretics of any political adversary to justify burning them on the stake in the name of God.

I do not consider Islam to be the enemy. The real enemy is this radical atheism and relativism we have allowed to grow within our own religious camp. The enemy is not at the gates, it is already inside the walls.

Shalom,
Memo



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The real enemy is always my self

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Islam was founded after Christ established the Church, so, so regard Islam as a 'good' religion or to say that God would use Islam to make people holier is to in effect say that Christ's Sacrifice was not enough. Individual people who happen to be Muslim are children of God, who God loves, and He will act on their individual souls to draw them to himself to the degree they allow it. But, this is for each indivual. Islam and other religions are man-made efforts to reach God and cannot be equated with Christianity which is God's effort to reach man.

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