www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Byzantine Catholics Returning to Prosphora Traditions?

Originally Posted By: DTBrown
In very many parishes that use pre-cuts there is no seal used on the bread.

I remember asking a Byzantine Catholic priest about this about 10 years ago and he told me how he would take one day to bake up altar bread for about two months at one time. He would cut it all up and then freeze it and then use what he needed for the various liturgies during those two months.

I then mentioned how I'd seen the traditional prosphora seal in a Greek Orthodox parish bookstore in our city. His eyes widened: "A real seal?" The upshot was he decided to go to the bookstore to buy one so he could use it in his baking. I still believe he combines pre-cuts with the use of a seal. I felt good that he at least added the use of the seal to his baking of bread for Liturgy.

Thanks for clarifying. Yes, it could be.

Just some thoughts and questions ...
What happened at the first sacrifice, on Good Friday? When Our Lord was on the cross, the soldier pierced His side with a lance, because scripture said "not a bone of him shall you break."(John, 19:36) So, does that indicate we should not break the particles from the prosphora?
I believe that is part of the symbolism behind the lance being at the table of preparation. I can also remember, as an altar boy, watching the priest trace IC XC NI KA over the four corners of the "lamb" as he placed it on the diskos during proskomedija.
"Tradition" is a word that can mean a lot of things -- For example, in Mark, ch.6, Jesus fed 5,000 people who had gathered to listen to Him. He did it with 5 loaves of bread -- so, I could say that tradition dictates we use 5 loaves at each liturgy!
Traditions can change, sometimes for the good. And, traditions can grow and develop with every generation. Is it not the Eucharist that is important here? There is only one Eucharist; there can be many aspects of it, and ways to receive and partake of it. The Latin Rite Host is no less viable than the prosphora cut at the preparation table, or pre-cut particles from one loaf or five loaves...

"Save your people O Lord, and bless Your inheritance..."

Pilgrimcantor

I'm not sure if I understand the question. Are you arguing against using a prosphora loaf?


Certainly, the Eucharist is what is important here. I have not argued or implied there is anything lacking in the Eucharist we receive in our Churches.

One could similarly argue against the movement to restore other Byzantine traditions in our Church over the past few decades.

Why do we need to install an iconostas in our parish churches? Not every Eastern Christian Church has an iconostas. Nor do our Roman Rite brothers.

Or, why remove the Filioque from the Creed sung in our Church? Or, why have infant Communion? Or, why have Presanctified liturgies instead of Stations of the Cross during Great Lent? Etc., etc.

Our traditions are own own. Removing latinizations from our liturgical life does not mean such things are impure or evil. When Vatican II called for us to restore our traditions and to remove elements foreign to our tradition, it was not indicting the latinizations as bad.

Metropolitan Judson, of blessed memory, said it well in an Intervention [eparchy-of-van-nuys.org] at a Synod in Rome in 1997:


It's this spirit that animates those who are seeking the removal of this latinization and the restoral of our authentic tradition. It's not an attack on the Latin Church or a denial of the grace in our Church and its Eucharist. It's a request that we live our faith fully following our own tradition.

The cutting and breaking are at two quite separated parts of the liturgy. The cutting is done at the proskomedia; the breaking is done after the praying of the Anaohora and before communion. The breaking at that point is overwhelmingly attested to by Scripture and, I would say, (big T) Tradition.

Both tradition and Tradition have a fairly specific meaning for the Church: it is that which is handed on, handed over. It is not an interpretation of an ad hoc reading of scripture or ancient sources determining the Church's worship (That to me is a typically Protestant approach.). Legitimate traditions can vary and be selective; Tradition cannot. The Tradition that scripture confirms and attests to in the feedings of the multitudes is not the number of loaves but that Jesus took, blessed/gave thanks, broke, and gave the bread to His disciples. And that's what we do, and what we must do, for every Divine Liturgy.

The Eucharistic liturgy includes anamnesis of two distinct events--the Last Supper and the Passion/Resurrection of Christ. In the Byzantine rite, what was at the beginning a very prosaic, mundane and necessary step in the Liturgy--the preparation of the Gifts in anticipation of their offering and consecration--was gradually overlaid with ritual significance pertaining to the Passion (although elements of the Nativity are also found there).

Thus, cutting and piercing are necessary symbolic elements of the Prothesis, but, originally, we can assume that the deacons in the Skeuophylakion were more concerned about cutting up enough bread for all the people in Hagia Sophia. With the internalization of the offering procession as the Great Entrance, more importance was attached to the spiritual meaning of the Rite of Preparation, which gradually evolved into the Proskomide as we know it today.

On the other hand, the elevation and breaking of the Bread during the Anaphora is one of the oldest parts of the Liturgy, common to all the ancient Rites, even those that do not have an institution narrative. In the Byzantine Rite, the Rite of Preparation is more elaborate and rich than in many others, and the piercing of the Lamb exists together with the breaking of the Lamb. Christ was pierced, the Bread was broken, and our Liturgy remembers both.

Yes. I was preparing and intending to post here the initial part of the proskomedia since most people are not familiar with it and the sacrificial aspect is apparent.

As described at the Skeuophylakion, the "cutting up" is just the pre-cuts but where the preparation was originally done, at the Great Entrance, rather than as now, as a preliminary preparation, at the proskomedia.

[BTW, when I've been using Anaphora, I've not meant the breaking which I considered separately.]

While the Byzantine liturgy has both the piercing and the breaking, it is the breaking that is essential and, as stated, "common to all the ancient Rites."

And here it is. The translation is from the Study Text, link , which I highly recommend if an accurate translation of the (complete) liturgy is desired.

The deacon then says:

Master, bless.

And the priest begins:

Blessed is our God, always, now and ever, and to the ages of ages.

Deacon: Amen.

The priest then takes a prosphora in his left hand and the lance in his right hand. With the lance he makes the sign of the cross three times over the seal of the prophora, saying:

In remembrance of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. (Three times)

He then thrusts the lance into the right side of the seal and says while cutting:

Like a sheep that is led to the slaughter.

Then into the left side:

And like a lamb without blemish, that before its shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

Then into the upper side of the seal:

In his humiliation judgment of him was taken.

Then into the lower side:

Who shall declare his generation?

The deacon, holding his orarion in his hand, looks with piety upon this mystery and says at each incision: Let us pray to the Lord. After which he says:

Master, remove.

And the priest inserts the holy lance obliquely into the right side of the prosphora and lifts out the holy bread, saying:

For his life is being cut off from the earth

He then places it, seal downwards, on the holy discos; and the deacon says:

Master, offer.

And the priest offers it, in the form of a cross saying:

The Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world, is being offered for the life and salvation of the world.

He turns it over so that the seal is upwards.

The deacon says:

Master, pierce.

And the priest pierces it with the lance on the right side, saying:

One of the soldiers pierced His side with a lance, and immediately there came out blood and water; and he who saw it has borne witness, and his witness is true.

Then the deacon takes wine and water, and says to the priest:

Master, bless this holy union.

And having obtained the blessing over them, he pours wine together with a little water into the holy chalice.

Thanks, ajk, for the liturgical text.

I found this catechetical summary of the Proskomide from The Orthodox Catechism Project: [orthodoxcp.wikispaces.com]

The Preparation of the Oblation

The Proskomide sets forth, in short, the Divine Plan of Redemption from Christ’s nativity to His Ascension.

1-The Gifts

We often hear the Oblation called “The Holy Gifts.” The word “Proskomide” means “offering” wherein the faithful bring offerings of bread and wine to be used in the Eucharist. To the present day, many of the faithful still prepare and bring the Prosphora as a gift to Christ, that He may change it into his Body and Blood. Therefore, each of us must come to the Eucharist with our own offering, the offering of ourselves, to be given as a living sacrifice. As Romans 12:1 tells us, “I urge you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God that you offer yourselves, a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.”

2-The Prosphora

The loaves of bread are round in shape, symbolic of the teaching of I Corinthians 10:17, “For we being many are one bread, and one body; for we are all partakers of that one bread.” The top is stamped with a seal bearing the sign of the cross and the initials IC XC NI KA, meaning “Jesus Christ Conquers All.” The priest, with the liturgical knife (holy spear) in his right hand, signs the Prosfora three times, and then cuts out the section that bears the stamp, IC XC NI KA. This cube is called the Lamb. While the Priest is cutting out the Lamb from the bread, he recites Isaiah 53:7-8, “As a sheep He was led to the slaughter. And as a blameless lamb before his shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth. In His humility His judgment was taken away. And who shall declare His generation? And His life was taken away from the earth.” The priest then cuts into the bottom of the Lamb in the sign of a cross, so it can be easily broken into four pieces at the time of Holy Communion in the liturgy. The Priest also symbolically pierces the side of the Lamb with the spear as he recites John 19:34,35, “One of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and straightway there came forth blood and water and he that saw it bear witness, and his witness is true.”

3-The Wine and Water

When Jesus had the spear thrust into him, the priest says “…there came forth blood & water…” At this point the wine, made of grapes and red in color reminiscent of blood, is poured, with a little water into the holy chalice.

4-Commemorative Prayers

Next, the various particles are placed on the Diskos representing The Mother of God, the Angels, the Saints, the Living, and the Dead. Commemorative prayers are then said for these. In addition, the faithful have an opportunity to present names of the living and the dead to be named during these commemorations.

I think it would be good for our Churches to have catechetical materials on the Liturgy that would include instruction on the significance of the Preparation part of the Divine Liturgy. Also, re-introducing prosphora traditions would allow for our people to be more involved with that part of the Divine Liturgy by their being able to present bread that a commemorative particle could be taken from for the name of the one they might want prayed for during the commemorations.

Too late to edit to add this:

Another great explanation (along with several pictures) [oca.org] of the Preparation part of the Divine Liturgy can be read on the OCA website.

Let me rephrase my previous comment: This can be taken as saying that the deacons in Hagia Sophia were producing pre-cuts to be carried in the entrance of the gifts and, presumably, then given as communion. Is this so?

It would appear this is what they did. But the Rite of Preparation in the early Byzantine rite is not at all what it became after the rite stabilized in the fourteenth century. For one thing, the stational nature of the Liturgy vanished, and the old stational processions were interiorized, while at the same time, the ritual actions they encompassed, once purely utilitarian in nature, became endowed with mystical significance. One cannot go back to the old stational liturgy, and one cannot eliminate or roll back the symbolism that has attached itself to the Rite of Preparation. We must live with, and thus ought to perform with the utmost exactitude, that which we today have inherited.

I agree that we must honor what has been handed on and especially what has immediately been handed on. I also believe that we, while being ourselves, also are part of a Byzantine liturgical tradition that spans both Orthodox and Catholic development.

For "utmost exactitude" the Lamb is broken, not cut, for communion. One can even argue that cutting at that time and place in the liturgy is out of place -- that if cutting is required, it should be done at some other time. One must then, however, admit communion given from other particles than those from the Lamb. If that kind of pre-cutting was done in Hagia Sophia (and what time frame?) it can hardly be considered in the absolute sense a "latinization" to do so now. And if so, what then of the previous quote from Fr. David Petras who writes on his website [davidpetras.com]:

?

But, where in our Byzantine liturgical tradition is there evidence for the handing on of the use of pre-cut pieces? Is there any evidence that the reference to some ancient practice in Hagia Sophia several hundred years ago has any continuity to the current practice? Is there any real agreement that this even resembles the current practice of pre-cut pieces?


So, should we revise the Byzantine tradition?


Again, why revise the Byzantine tradition?


I'd like to see more evidence of what may or may not have happened in Hagia Sophia many centuries ago. And, is there any real connection between what happened there (if indeed it bears any similarity) to the current practice of pre-cuts? Does this justify not using the seal, the mass baking and cutting of bread, freezing pieces to be thawed as needed, stored in tupperware? All this comes from Hagia Sophia?

Or, is the connection, as Fr Petras states, borne more from the influence of Latin practices?

I would say the latter is more likely.

In the churches that follow the prosphora traditions, there is a difference to be noted in the bread as used in the services.

When one receives Communion in a parish that follows the tradition, the consecrated Bread is softer. The bread is fresh and has never been frozen.

[Linked Image]

Since only a part of the prosphora loaf is used for Communion, the rest is served as Antidoron. As you can see in the above picture, there can be a lot of it. And it, too, is fresh and usually much larger than the pieces that are typically found in Byzantine Catholic parishes which serve bread at Mirovanije, which is not the same practice as Antidoron.

[Linked Image]