www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Church billboard upsets Catholics

Any thoughts on this?

I am truly lost for words...

http://www.news.com.au/world/mary-a...s-catholics/story-e6frfkyr-1225811281048

Truly disturbing. This is the problem with so called "progressive" Christianity. To mock the Virgin Mary and Saint Joseph is beyond words. How can you call yourself a Christian and then mock the Mother of the Savior of the World, that you profess to believe in by using the term Christian.

Lets pray for them and their conversion to Christ and lets pray that all the good, faithful Anglicans can take the Holy See's offer up and leave these progressives to themselves.

To quote their website [stmatthews.org.nz] "Progressives are more interested in spirituality than right belief or proper worship."
Another "interesting" statement: "being “Christian” does not tell us much about a faith community beyond the probability that Jesus plays a part in its beliefs." Oy vey...

likethethief:

The intro page you linked to identifies the most important issues.

1) denominations are not truly unified in belief.
2) Anglicans, especially, are not unified in belief nor praxis.
3) protestants seek a faith community which fits their desired flavor.

Therefore, it's important to anglican parishes to identify which kind of anglican parish it is.

They note that being Anglican simply means their bishop is in communion with the archbishop of Canterbury. Now, if Rev. Dr. Rowan Williams were to truly act as a bishop, and guide the Anglican church... but he opts instead to act as a chairman of a board of directors, and try to appease the flock as if shareholders, rather than uphold truth.

And that weak leadership leads to fragmentation and abuses... and abuses becoming institutional praxis.

And the Anglican Communion becomes less and less unified and less and less church-like every Lambeth...

And it's a crying shame.

I didn't want to invoke any ill feelings towards Anglicans/Progressive Anglicans/Progress Christians by posting this link - I just found it extraordinary and truly wanted to know what people's reactions were - particularly anyone who identified themselves as Anglican.

Some thoughts I have (though they, admittedly, are probably not worth hearing):

1) I can't help but agree on statements re: Dr. Williams. If this were a Catholic or Othodox Bishop - the matter would have been swiftly addressed. Surely this would require his intervention? and I wonder why a priest/bishop doesn't need the Arch.B.o.Cant.'s permission? Are their rules governing what churches ca and can't do? (If there are I bet they are called by-laws).

2) Can attracting people to a Church by mocking its foundations bring truly faithful followers - or those who want to poke fun or take the mick?

3) The term 'Anglican Communion' is now a token phrase and 'philosophy' more than reality. I say this with no disrespect to its members (my own Father was raised Anglican) - what I mean is that there seem to be such diverse factions within the Anglican Church itself - that to view it as a 'whole' seems most incorrect.

and lastly - well, at the end of the day - perhaps what the Pastor was trying to achieve has been successful. I mean - it HAS generated publicity. I noted on the poll of the site that numerous people visited the site as a result of the ad - some Catholic, many Eastern Orthodox - more Mormons and others also. Perhaps he has gotten the attention of te public at large. The problem - as I see it IMHO - is that faith shouldn't be about 'publicity' it should be about salvation and sharing common thoughts, deeds, beliefs and love. By generating an 'interest' in something, you are not necessarily creating more 'Christian Soldiers' (that sounds very Anglican doesn't it? hehehe) or even 'supporters' to your cause. I think this is a severe case of a man with good intentions getting it wrong... very wrong.

Many Anglicans I know tell me we share a history as Christians - but this work would have been less offensive if offered by Atheists - one would expect it from that group of people (again no offence to those who identify as such) - but coming from a church (and what a beautiful Church Building they appear to have) it seems so blasphemous. Schisms have occured over less... big ones too!

I appreciate the good reverend's attempts to promote his Church - but perhaps he would be better served promoting his FAITH - and the belief system that it is founded on. I hope he sees this as an error and I truly hope that the issue is addressed by those higher up on the chain - not to punish him - but to clarify the in/appropriateness of such actions.

That's it for me!

Misha

Michael,

What pastor Glynn Cardy appears to be doing here is likely more closely related to his beliefs than you think.

To begin with, many (most?) Protestants, while accepting the doctrine of the Virgin Birth, reject the doctrine of Mary's Perpetual Virginity. This ad goes only one step farther, by implying that Mary had had phyisical relations with God.

Its offensive nature aside, the ad is clearly targeted towards people who have rejected Christianity as being "anti-sex," and it very effectively conveys the message that this "progressive" brand of Christianity is decidedly "pro-sex," and is not afraid to ruffle the feathers of more traditional Christians with regard to this issue.

It is unfortunate that the doctrine of Mary's virginity is seen as implying that all sex is evil.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

He acted in a highly inappropriate manner.
But then again I will refrain from saying anything about him lest I be targeted with being "Uncharitable".
If he were a muslim or someone else in a muslim country and desplaued something similar against Islam,he would have been beheaded. And probably without a trial.
Stephanos I

I would not argue with a loon. The ad is disgraceful, disgusting, and despicable.

Terry

I totally agree. Prayer is needed here. Now my question is how does a parent explain to a child what they are seeing. After all unless you put blinders on a child or drive out of your way you can not avoid this situation.

Anglicans who choose to remaim Anglican have a high tolerance for this sort of thing. A former Anglican friend of mine showed me a comic strip from a Traditionalist Anglican publication which tells the story. It depicts a woman bishop placing a staue of Buddha on the high altar while an elderly couple in the front pew are muttering to themselves: "one more weird thing, and we're outta here!"

Dn. Robert

I think the real effect of this billboard was not aimed at Catholics, but to blaspheme the Lord Himself. In His day the Rabbis accused Him, "We were not born of fornication" (John 8:41) Scripture takes great care to establish the doctrine of our Lord's virgin birth. But by that image they seek to take that away along with His Divinity and the His sinless nature making sacrifice for sin common and ineffective.

They do much greater damage than only offending the scruples of the faithful.

μιχαηλ τω συστρατιωτης

Father Deacon,

You are quite right and I guess I shouldn't apply my own belief systems when looking at this issue, but rather view it from the perspective of the author/creator of the work.

True, many Protestant people believe in Mary as just that, and not as the Ever-Virgin as some others may. Still, it is the concept of implying of a relationship with God that Joseph cannot live up to that is still completely inappropriate - to ultra Orthodox Eastern Chrisitians over to Snake Handlers in the South! I see the metaphor here, but wow - talk about hit aand miss. Jesus loved a good parable. This is anything but a good one though.

The idea of churches using a modern medium in this day and age is a great idea. We have for years seen all types of secular concepts (political, pseudo-religious, social, etc) being promoted on the sides of buses, on billboards and in leaflet drops. However, the Christian message(s) has not really gone past the cheap infomercial at 3am on a low-budget TV channel, and usually by one with questionable (says I) church affiliations. - Looking at using modern media to promote an ancient belief is a good idea. Though, by 'pushing the envelope' it is more a case of stirring up a reaction than genuine attempts at invoking conviction. I am sure that whilst pastor Cardy may have indeed believed his creation to be totally in-line with modern day Anglican beliefs, he must have known it was going to be controversial. I still think that was a big error - and I hope it was unintentional. Causing a massive response isn't always causing the one that you wanted. How many of his own flock (Anglicans or Christians as a whole) did he offend by trying to attract some new progresives? There is enough division already - do we need yet another scandal?

I see two possible outcomes to this. Pastor Cardy will either pull in the line and act a little more cautiously from hereon in, or he will keep trying to push the envelope and 'out do' previous efforts in his attempts to develop his parish. I sincerely wish that he doesn't do this at the expense of the congregation he already has. I ust admit, one would think he must eventually be 'cut off' from the general Anglican community if he were to continue to tarnish their 'good name' in the eyes of the heirarchs.

Finally, I wonder how much belief/doctrine was considered in this publicity stunt really? By their own admission, the progressives care less about doctrine and rites than they do about spirituality. I have a sneaking suspicion that there was a very clear idea of what could result of this, and I could just see someone counting the number of subsequent hits on their website after the news spread tallying up the visits.... but that's the pessimistic Slav in me!

Okay I have bored you all enough... sorry!

Misha

I wonder if these cowards would dare depict Mohammad in a simular fission.....

Wait... I don't need to wonder about that.... I know the answer to that question all too well.

You put my thoughts into words. Thank you for that. Praying for the souls of those that could do something like this about the Mother of GOD.

In the non-protestant "Protestant" church I attended growing up I did not see Mary as more than her role as mother, she was merely a female figure that didn't play a big role in Jesus' ministry. It was not until I read Luke and saw "she took these things into her heart" that my eyes were opened to see her as the Most Holy Theotokos and what it meant to call her son Christ.