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What is the correct translation of 2 Maccabees 12:44?

The Douy Reims reads "For if he had not believed that the fallen would rise again, it would have seemed superfluous nd vain to pray for the dead."

The Orthodox Study Bible has "For if he were not looking foreward to the resurrection of those who had fallen, it would have been utterly foolish to pray for the departed."

The first translation would imply only that it might have seemed useless to the Jews to pray for the dead if not for the hope of resurrection.

The second translation seems to imply that no prayers could help them unless they were raised.

Does anyone have access to the Greek text?

What does it say (and what does it mean)?

It is importaint to realize that the Douy Reims was translated from the Latin version while the Orthodox Study Bible was translated from Rhalf's LXX. Differences in readings between them might be best understood along those lines.

The Greek text in question is:

2Mac.12:44 εἰ γὰρ μὴ τοὺς προπεπτωκότας ἀναστῆναι προσεδόκα, περισσὸν ἂν ἦν καὶ ληρῶδες ὑπὲρ νεκρῶν προσεύχεσθαι.

My own imperfect translation: "For if he was not looking forward to the resurrection of the fallen, it would have been utterly foolish to make intercession for the dead."

I'll leave the application for others to make.

μιχαηλ των απολογίων

But why would it be utterly foolish (and was Jerome's Vulgate based on an alternate Greek text)?

The Latin Vulgate was edited a few times after Jerome. One cannot say for sure whether the Douy Reims translators had the original Latin of Jerome before them. Likewise, we cannot say whether the LXX manuscripts Jerome used were the same as used for our printed editions today. Translation is by nature an interpretive art and often reflects the translator in certain ways.

Prudence demands out of respect for this house I should refrain myself from comment on the doctrinal/applicational aspect of the verse. However, I would point out there seems a certain logic to the literal meaning of the Greek.

The Greek text cited in my first reply came from the Sixtine text and reflects the reading of Codex Venetus (8th century) and also several minuscules. The Rhalfs/Hanhart LXX edition differs slightly taking the reading of the Codex Alexandrinus (5th century): "εἰ μὴ γὰρ τοὺς προπεπτωκότας ἀναστῆναι προσεδόκα, περισσὸν καὶ ληρῶδες ὑπὲρ νεκρῶν εὔχεσθαι."

The "New English Translation of the Septuagint" (NETS) 2007, Oxford UP; reportedly translates the Goettingen Septuagint for 2Maccabees and has 2Mac.12:44 thus:"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superflouous and foolish to pray for the dead."

One should know that NETS was based on the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) and duplicates this verse verbatim from that.

μιχαηλ τω συστρατιωτης

MichaelB:

Christ is in our midst!!

First of all, both are correct, from the point of view of English sentences. They are equivalent in expressing the same point. The English in Rheims Douay is simply an older way of expressing the same thing. I fail to see how one is not correct and the other correct.

Bob