The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Bodhi Zaffa, anaxios2022, Lillian, ROCOR man, comehavebreakfast
5,878 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
3 members (dia Christon salos, akemner, 1 invisible), 157 guests, and 21 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,217
Posts415,273
Members5,878
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 5
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 5
This article was posted two days before the Putin invasion of Ukraine: With war looming will Kyiv get a Catholic patriarch? [pillarcatholic.com]

Quote
While the prospect of a renewed Russian invasion in Ukraine is becoming a reality, the Vatican office which oversees Eastern Catholic Churches is considering a request that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church be given “patriarchal” status.

The move would highlight the historical and contemporary importance of the largest Eastern Catholic Church in the Catholic communion.

During a plenary session of the Vatican’s Congregation for Oriental Churches held last week, Archbishop Borys Gudziak, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Archeparch of Philadelphia, presented a report on the possibility of establishing new patriarchates among the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches in communion with Rome, the archeparchy announced last week.

Sources close to the Vatican congregation have told The Pillar that after Gudziak’s presentation, members of the congregation were scheduled to discuss the prospect of elevating the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church to a “patriarchal Church” — the highest canonical status possible for an Eastern Catholic, or sui iuris, Church.

It's time to grant the patriarchate! It's long overdue!

With the life of His Beatitude Sviatoslav Shevchuk in danger as he stays in Kyiv and the possibility that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC) could undergo another wave of persecution, it's time that His Holiness Francis declares it official.

1 member likes this: Yuhannon
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 118
Likes: 1
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 118
Likes: 1
Would it make any real change in the jurisdiction of UGCC?!? Major Archbishop or patriach - does it really mater?🙄

1 member likes this: byzanTN
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 46
Likes: 3
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 46
Likes: 3
Of course it matters. As per the article, it would grant the UGCC "the highest canonical status possible for an Eastern Catholic, or sui iuris, Church."

It is a matter of honour.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 5
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 5
A UGCC priest friend of mine has posted that apparently two attempts were made on His Beatitude Sviatoslav's life this week.

His courage in staying in Kyiv at the risk of his life is alone enough reason to grant him officially the title of Patriarch!

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
To most Ukrainians it wouldn't matter much. Ukraine is an Orthodox country and Catholics are a minority.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Dearest Charles,

Hello Sir!

In fact, I thinkwe will see a massive shift of ecclesial loyalties in Ukraine away from Moscow and toward Constantinople and, in western Ukraine especially, toward Rome. Pope Francis has pulled out all the stops with respect to Ukraine. I pray that all Ukraine become Eastern Catholic! Amen - so may it be.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
I suspect they will not align with Rome, but who knows? Stranger things have happened.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Dear Charles,

His All-Holiness is extremely open to communion with Rome, as you know. I think the UGCC should commemorate the Pope of Elder Rome and then the Ecumenical Patriarch ahead of any formal union. What would be wrong with that? Fr. Serge Keleher (+memory eternal!) always did that on the feast of St Andrew.

When this terrible war is over (hopefully without engulfing the entire world in it first), Ukrainians will be more than willing to have a second look at the Union of Brest . . . you heard it here first!

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 18
Likes: 4
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 18
Likes: 4
Francis, Pope of Rome, does not prioritize or seek conversion of non-Catholic Christians to Roman Catholicism.

In fact, Orthodox would already likely be deemed genuine Christians to the Pope.

1 member likes this: byzanTN
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by OEFNavyVet
Francis, Pope of Rome, does not prioritize or seek conversion of non-Catholic Christians to Roman Catholicism.

In fact, Orthodox would already likely be deemed genuine Christians to the Pope.
Pope Francis seems to have good relations with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. That's a good place to start. With Orthodox, the goal isn't so much conversion (I am NOT a universalist, so please do not misunderstand me, here), but reunion.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
These things are unpredictable. Church politics is a minefield and can go in unexpected directions. I'll believe only when I see it.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Dearest Charles,

You won't see it . . . The only canonical patriarchate in Ukraine will eventually be the one established by the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople - after this brutal, inhumane war is done and putiniZm is defeated - which it will be.

The so-called "patriarch" of Moscow has his days numbered there but this will be dealt with by Orthodoxy.

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Dearest Charles,

You won't see it . . . The only canonical patriarchate in Ukraine will eventually be the one established by the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople - after this brutal, inhumane war is done and putiniZm is defeated - which it will be.

The so-called "patriarch" of Moscow has his days numbered there but this will be dealt with by Orthodoxy.

Orthodox Catholic,

I agree with your opinion here. The EPC will exert a renewed importance in Ukraine. Ironnically, the demise of the "third Rome" (Moscow) will be not from external forces like Rome 1 and Constantinople, but from internal forces.

At any rate, I am curious- does the MP actually " own" Church lands and structures ( churches) in Ukraine? Is some of this war actually about ROC property? Is the ROC not only concerned about it's spiritual jurisdiction in Ukraine, but its material as well.......especially with the prospect of some Urainian churches moving toward EPC autocephaly? And, for that matter, does the ROC have property claims to "ROCOR" facilities worldwide? Curious about how this all works physically..........

Forgive me if these questions are slightly off the opening topic, but this seemed to be the opportunity to ask......

Christ is Risen,
Hutsul
.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,308
Likes: 21
Dear Hutsul,

BOICTUHY BOCKPEC!

The issue of who owns which church property is a tangled one in Ukraine. For one thing, there are longstanding disputes between Ukrainian Catholics and the ROC dating from the 1946 "council" that forcibly united the UGCC to the "mother church" of Russia (please forgive me while I Glasnost . . .). This is one reason why the formal title of our Church is "Ukrainian Greco-Catholic" precisely because the churches taken over by the ROC were registered as "Greco-Catholic" in legal title prior to the takeover in the "reunification council."

Before the war (I'm sorry - the "special military operation" - do you think someone here will tell Putin? Do you think I am now in danger?), when a parish of the UOC-MP (read: ROC in Ukraine) voted to join the OCU under the EPC, matters would go to court and the courts usually found in favour of the will of the parish. The UOC-MP leadership always denied that the parishioners would vote to opt out of the MP so they published widely that the local Ukrainian authorities shut down the parish etc. Living in their own virtual reality didn't help them one bit.

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
Dear Orthodox Catholic........thank you for your very insightful answer and on-the-mark comments.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5