www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Is it enough?

Peace everyone,

I have a deep appreciation of Byzantine spirituality, such as the Jesus Prayer, icons, and the writings of the desert fathers. I was wondering if this is enough to consider exploring the Byzantine-Rite and possibility converting from the Latin Rite.

A quick bio, my dad was Ukrainian and my mother Polish; they both fell away from their faith and ethnicity. I was raised totally secularized in the United States. I was not even baptized until a year after my marriage to a devout, holy, Roman Catholic woman.

I have been comfortable in the Latin Rite, have been involved in my parish, including being a lector and catechist. I however repeatedly found my favorite forms of devotion to lean toward those of the Byzantine.

This Easter I went to a Ukrainian gift store to buy my kids Ukrainian Easter Eggs and felt like I had stumbled on a hidden part of myself. The kind woman who ran the store flipped when she noticed my name, I guess it�s very recognizable as Ukrainian. She made me promise to come visit her church.

I did go and despite being clueless enjoyed the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. I especially liked the give-and take between the priest and laity such as during the litany of peace. In fact, the Novus Ordo has seemed rather...well...pale, since.

I just don�t know if it�s selfish of me to consider such a change and the impact it may have on my family�despite us all being part of the Holy Catholic Church.

Are there anyone other former Latin Rite folks here that have made such a change?

Chance,

p.s., How does one cross himself in the Byzantine/Orthodox fashion and also how do I enter a church pew respectfully (instead of genuflecting)?

If you feel drawn, go.

Don�t worry about crossing your self the right way or getting the behavior perfect for now.

Immerse yourself in the Liturgy. If you have a vocation to become Byzantine the Lord will let everything fall into place.

Christ is Risen!

Welcome to the Forum!

Dear Chance,

My friend is a UGCC priest who has many Latins in his parish.

They have even learned the Divine Liturgy in Ukrainian . . . and they are more active in the parish than the cradle ethnic Ukies!

They cross themselves with three fingers, but from left to right.

I told him that that is O.K. since the Oriental Orthodox cross themselves from left to right too!

You are welcome to the Eastern Catholic Churches.

We believe the same as the RC's, but we just have more colourful, exciting ceremonies and spirituality!

Alex

Hello and welcome!

It might. However, we do not see that as a "conversion", because the Byzantine Catholics and the Latin Catholics are in Full Communion and that means we have unity in the essentials of faith.

If you decide to transfer officially from the Latin Church to the Ukrainian Church (or any other Catholic Church), then you'd go through a canonical transfer, not a conversion.

Hmmmm. I am not an expert in these cases, but if your dad was a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, then you might already be one as well. Talk to your pastor about that.

Well, I would strongly advice against you going through the canonical transfer alone.

What does your wife (and children if they are old enough) think about the whole thing?

Do they feel at home in the Ukrainian Church as well?

Would they be willing to transfer with you?

If they are unable to follow you in this right now, I'd suggest you keep your family together. There is always time to revise this decision later and you can visit the Ukrainian parish as frequently as you wish (and if you go with your family, all the better).

I'd give them the chance to get better acquainted with the Eastern Church before making any firm decisions.

Well, I am Latin and staying Latin. However, there are a good number of people who have gone through a canonical transfer.

You're a man who made the decision to request Baptism as an adult. I can tell you: This canonical transfer thing is no biggie compared to that.

Don't worry too much about that right now, but Byzantines usually cross themselves by extending together the thumb, index and middle fingers (to represent the Most Holy Trinity) and folding the other two fingers together against the palm of the hand (to represent the Two Natures of Christ: True God and True Man), then the sign themselves on the forehead, chest, RIGHT shoulder and then LEFT shoulder. I think you should bow slightly while signing yourself.

About entering the church/pew, well, even in the Latin Church there is no one-size-fits-all. Here in Los Angeles, the directive is:

If the tabernacle is in the sanctuary, then on entering and leaving the sancturary you genuflect facing the tabernacle.

If the tabernacle is not in the sanctuary, then on entering and leaving the sanctuary you bow deeply towards the altar. On entering and leaving the Blessed Sacrament chapel, you genuflect facing the tabernacle.

Since the Blessed Sacrament is usually NOT reserved in the Byzantine Churches, genuflecting is not required and actually incorrect on all Sundays and throughout the Easter Season.

What I've seen is people signing themselves upon entry and then proceeding to the tetrapod (the small table placed between the pews (if there are any) and the iconostasis, there you venerate the icon with a profound bow, sign of the cross and a kiss. After that (or instead of it, if there is no tetrapod or no icon on it), you may go to the two main icons in front of the Church (one of Our Lord and one of the Mother of God) and venerate them by a profound bow and signing yourself in front of each.

However, don't sweat it. Nobody (including God) will frown on you if you simply enter with reverence and proceed directly to your pew.

On entering any church, it is more important you bow your heart than your head.

Shalom,
Memo

A brief response from a Latin...

In my experience a few exposures to the Divine Liturgy and Churches of the Eastern Rite has a tremendous affect when one returns to the modern Roman Rite and Church...at least for me.

It has produced a few questions and problems with attaining a like spiritual feeling when attending my local parishes...

Again I'm a 50 + Latin and my churching was alot different then what exists today...

I would say finding the Eastern Rite has greatly enlightened me spiritually and consider the event a most blessed positive find.

james

Just a minor correction. Memo stated that The Body of Christ IS usually held in reserve in the Byzantine Churches but not in as visible or obvious way as in Roman Churches. There should be a tabernacle, Gospel Book, and hand cross on every holy table in the Byzantine tradition.

This in no way invalidates his excellent advice. Welcome!

Every Byzantine Church I have been to unless it did not have someone looking after it, has the Eucharist reserved on the Altar. It might not have a large Tabernacle, that may confuse visiting RCs.

ICXC
NIKA

And antimension.

I was also a past-generation Austro-Hungarian Empire descendant (long ago integrated into RC parishes) who "discovered" the East many, many years ago as a teen.

Take it one step at a time, pray about it yourself and with your wife and family. My wife was a bit hesitant at first, but now she is more Eastern than I could ever hope to be. Go and experience the Liturgy and praises in the Byzantine tradition, and see what happens. Worry about paperwork later.
FDD

Hi,

I stand corrected.

However, I am now even more puzzled by the criticism we receive from our Eastern brethren (both those we are in full communion with and those we are not) about our devotions to the Body of Christ outside the Divine Liturgy.

What is the rationale behind this criticism. In other words, I know why we reserve the Body of Christ after the Liturgy. Why do you?

What do you do because the Body of Christ is there in the tabernacle that is so different than what we do?

I am not trying to start any polemics, I am asking questions honest to goodness.

Shalom,
Memo

Christ is Risen!

We reserve the Eucharist for the communing of the sick.

--Mark Therrien

Hello and welcome.
Years ago we were in a similar situation. My husband was raised without religion and came into the RC church in high school. I was raised as "Catholic" but not really.
Anyway, my husband from the beginning loved the eastern churches and when our 4th child was born we went trhough the canonical process of changing rites. Primarily for the sake of the children. Changing rites meant for them that they could recieve Eucharist as young children, which they really wanted. (Our daughter has had a hunger for the Eucharist from very young, and now at age 25 can't live without recieving quite regularly).
Anyway, we found that the Eastern sprituality and devotions fit our family very well. For the sake of our family growth in God, we made the switch. Give yourself time to explore with your family the Spirtuality of the East. Try on the eastern devotions within your own domestic church as see how they fit. God will guide.
blessings to you and yours,
Alice